PvE only characters

I don't post on the forums often and I would ask that we keep this discussion civil as it is likely to spark a variety of opinions. Please be respectful.

Some of the staff have been talking about the idea of giving players the option for a PvE only character. This character would essentially be opting out of the PK scene. The primary tradeoff would be that this character would not be able to use rare or unique items. I am in favor of this idea for the following reasons:

1. We have recently had several new players that have struggled to learn the game fast enough before being driven away by extremely expert PKers that we have in our playerbase. We have an immensely complex game, a huge game world, and a crazy amount of nuance in PK that puts new players at a tremendous disadvantage. A PvE only character would allow them to learn the world, interact with others, and make a better, less emotionally-charged decision if AR was a place they want to be.

2. Some players just do not want to PK. They have, for decades now, been forced to participate in this scene whether they want to or not. It would be great to support another play style to grow the game.

3. Sometimes you just want to chill and run some content with others without constantly looking over your shoulder for someone to interrupt your RP scene or your PvE run. We should support this kind of fun.

I'm hopeful this is something that would generate interest for the game, attract new players and let them acclimate, and allow the staff to continue to make RP events that are engaging and unique. It's a game after all, and supporting different ways that players have fun seems like a good thing.

I would like to state that I am not opposed to this idea. It does raise a lot of questions in my mind though. How would you keep these characters out of PvP situations? (I.E. Healing someone or killing a mob for them?) Also, why would you need to run end game content if you could not use rare or unique gear? Could these characters join in coteries? Would the PvP scene suffer if everyone went PvE? How would I silence that pesky elf if he/she were PvE?

These are some really good points you bring up!

Preventing healing and assisting PvP is probably the biggest potential issue. On one hand, you could prevent friendly spells from being cast from PvE chars onto PvP chars, but this creates the issue of not being able to assist them with PvE content. At the very least, it should be a clearly stated rule that absolutely no interference in PvP is allowed and the consequences should be severe. Maybe losing PK protection for a certain amount of time for a first offense, and losing it permanently if it continues.

As for running end game content, I think this is something that many people enjoy doing even if they aren't getting the rare gear out of it. There's gambled gear and gold that comes from end game too.

On coteries, I think the 3 Consortium coteries make sense for PvE characters. They already have a non-interference rule with cabals and trend towards rp. But Strife and the cabals I would say no. These don't really fit a non-PK character.

I doubt the PvP scene suffers from the simple fact that PvP gives you that adrenaline rush that other gameplay does not. Plus many people aren't going to give up rares on a whim. This takes some real thought into what you are sacrificing. Ideally, some of the new players start with a PvE character and then think "wow this game is cool, I really want to try my hand at PvP". So I actually see this as a way to grow the PK scene, not reduce it.

As for that "pesky elf" well, technically anyone could sit at level 9 and annoy you, I guess? PvE trolls would not be a healthy thing for the game IMO, so I'd be willing to create some rules around that as well and help enforce them. The PvE character should be a privilege and you don't get to use it to wreck someone else's fun in the game.

Good thoughts on the topic!

In general, I think it's a good idea that could potentially help grow the playerbase. In particular, I think we might get more good and evil RP players if there was a PVE only option. People tend to respect an obvious RP neutral character but good and evils tend to go at each other regardless without some sort of protection like this. We might get more nobles and counts driving their own stories this way.

Would PVE only characters still be able to do fights in the arena? Seems like it would be useful in developing the itch to try the PVP side if they could.

I also think it might be useful to think about mechanics for the PVE only side or crossover mechanics between the PVP and PVE sides. It would be cool if all that end game content dropping rares and uniques also gave something that helped PVE players do something interesting like pump up Valour or Darkhaven in some meaningful way. Or rebuild gregisham. Whatever. Some kind of long term goal that keeps PVE players going back to Winter and selling that gear they don't need on the market.

I like this idea. If there's enough restrictions and reasons to stay involved, I imagine it would not hurt the game. Here's some additional thoughts I have right away.

1. Perhaps we should only allow one such character per forum account?
2. I'm not sure how we'd handle interactions in such a way that PvP is not negatively affected unless we add class restrictions OR possibly make the spells/abilities from a PvE character fade like monster potions once PvP happens. I could totally see some illusionist hasting somebody (perhaps without thinking) otherwise and impacting a PvP fight. Once PvP happens, nothing from the PvE character can affect the PK character until their adrenaline is calm would be one solution.
3. This could also be an option you enable either at character creation (like static gains) or before level 10 (like hardcore mode).
4. Putting aside getting people ready for the PvP aspect, would there be other incentives behind this? I know there are people who would probably be more likely to play AR if it weren't all hack-and-slash and if they had no danger of being attacked by other players (my mom is a good example of this as she played the original Zork trilogy when it came out - and she isn't a fan of violent games. She really liked the puzzles in Zork).

Honestly I think this is a great and exciting idea. I'm sure it would help bring in new players and soften the transition and learning curve. It would also likely bring in new players or help retain and increase hours from current players that aren't interested in PvP ever.

Preventing rare use seems reasonable. Gambled gear could still make an amazing set. Weapons would probably be the toughest thing to overcome, but low damage weapons aren't the end of the world, especially when you aren't doing any PK.

As others have said, taking advantage of the different adrenaline states seems from my very uneducated perspective like a pretty simple solution to preventing any unsavory interactions.

Mostly I just applaud the continued culture of perpetual improvement. Way to keep changing and adapting and improving the game. Awesome stuff.

https://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12717

I mean there's already mechanics for adrenaline and adrenaline works differently for pvp. Would it not be possible to make it so PvE can't cast beneficial spells on someone under the effects of PvP adrenaline?

I have several lower ranked characters that are for when I want to have the tv on and half pay attention to the show and AR.

As far as why run end game content if you can't use rares? Sometimes it's just cool to be a part of something. Overcome an obstacle. I say don't restrict them from running end game content but keep the game fair by restricting rare/uniques.

I was initially ambivalent about this idea but think it may have legs if deployed appropriately.

I love the storytelling potential in the AR universe, and part of what makes that exciting and impactful (in my opinion) is consequences and the near omnipresent threat of danger. I have always wanted to see more hybridized RP & PK characters and find myself responding to that play style even if I can't PK my own way out of a paper bag.

But the truth is RP in AR seems at its nadir--this may be the natural ebb and flow of a game in constant play for decades, but, as the player base continues to dwindle, I do think it's important to consider expanding the sandbox.

The other truth is that the learning curve IS steep: most veterans understand this as they continue to discover new features of the game after literal years of play. Expecting new players to stand on equal footing with PK heavy hitters who have internalized the esoteric nuances of our combat system seems like an easy way to turn away new players.

I guess my remaining qualm is a fear that this will further silo RP players away from PK players, and we'll all be playing two separate games. I hope that implementation would consider ways to engage the player base collectively or what a bridge between those two experiences looks like.

I think this is an idea worth exploring, but I do want to present some counter arguments.

My last two characters have been very PvP focused, but I really embraced the RP of both Knight and Legion. And to the credit of my contemporaries, I think most Knights and Legions embrace the RP aspect just as much as the PK.

Having a group of untouchables running amuck in the world would really mess with that. I ran into a handful of characters between Aerysen and Zyron who completely avoided PvP (usually thieves and illusionists) and would still whip around and talk smack. Just pretty much trolls, which is fine. Every game has them. But this kind of trolling would be made objectively worse by someone who was actually untouchable.

I would love some suggestions for how a Knight can reckon with the RP that their supposed to purge the world of evil... oh except THAT guy. Same goes for Legion. Bend the world to your will, but not THAT lady. At the moment, I can't reconcile how I would approach this from an RP perspective. It completely clashes with the RP of those cabals.

At best, this non-PvP status would absolutely help newcomers get accustomed before being launched into the hardcore world of PvP. It would improve player retention and likely character longevity.

At worst, this would be a troll-haven that breaks the RP of the PvP cabals.

You bring up good points, lionspyre. I agree there are some potential issues that would need to be met head on.

1. Trolling - My personal take on this is that a PvE character would be a privilege, not a right. You don't have the right to use this character to wreck other people's fun or their immersion. Trolling would be against the rules and enforced by immortals.

2. Cabal RP - This one is tricky, but I suppose my approach would be that players in cabals focused on eradication or domination wouldn't really bother with an individual who has no powerful items and no direct method to shift the balance of power. There would have to be some understanding that cabals pursue larger goals and don't need to hunt every single soul who roams Serin to accomplish them.

I actually disagree a bit Avenar. I think you could go do it with just a general understanding like you say. I also think it's far more interesting if it's mechanically and thematically reinforced.

That's kind of why I brought up cross systems and the cities before but held off on making a full pitch. I don't think you should just be able to *be* a PVE only player just because. I think you should have to attach yourself to the world. Valour, Darkhaven. Tower of Sorcery, whatever. You aren't just untouchable. You're untouchable because touching you would be provoke a part of the world. And if PVE content gives a currency to build up your part of the world then the is your attack vector. To attack the player you attack their place. And you do that through PVE content. And they have to defend it just like a cabal but through PVE content. If they don't... well, there goes your status.

I think it could be really cool. Cabal players wouldn't normally care enough to pursue this avenue of attack. But if it was a special event (or a trip was prolific enough) the gauntlet can still be thrown.

I like scrynor's beginnings of an idea there. I think he's on to something.

I kind of had a thought in the complete opposite direction:

Maybe reinforce that the PvE characters are NOT a part of the world. They're somehow different from everyone else. Maybe they're "spirits" or "ghosts" or something that only has limited physical interaction with the world. I'm sure somebody could come up with a better idea to explain it than that.

But the idea remains, I think they either become inherently a part of the world, like scrynor says, or we go the opposite direction like my example, but either way, something needs to set them apart in someway other than just not having a red <PK> flag. That way it's world building and provides a universal and consistent foundation to then build the RP from.

Interesting idea and I think one that could probably help maintain some of the players who get tired of the PK and move on from the realms. Especially for players with short bursts of time due to other obligations. I also am very interested in a way for RP to be involved in more of the conflicts of the realms.

I think PK, and particularly mostly unrestricted PK is an important part of this game and community but I am not convinced that this would impact that negatively. I know it is different these days but kinda reminds me of the tension built when Warlords in Szrevran's time demanded duels or to be marked and hunted. Really pushed some RP folks into playing less.

First of all, when it comes to making something that introduces new players to AR, the freelancer class was made for it. Also, its not the freelancer class skills that is the appeal - those are generic, its what those skills enable the player to accomplish. There are always going to be newbies who ignore it and go necromancer because they saw that and wanted to play one, but I do see freelancers being rolled by newbies, and when they do, they are broadly introduced to a variety of skills useful in both a PK and good for exploring (i.e. vs mobs).

I notice a lot of mentions of "new players" in this thread. That is commendable, but lets not conflate making AR more newbie friendly with having a NOPVP Flag provided for vets to chill with the homies. those are two kinds of players with two very different agendas.

One player mentioned there (the newbie) wants space to learn the game and eventually compete, and a more gentle introduction into pk range than being dumped in immediately at level 10 definitely makes some sense there. The game has probably matured enough to consider some alternative to that sink-or-swim approach. As far as the argument of the game learning curve being too hard to get on your feet, I really don't agree with that being true at all, but I see room to improve the rate of ramp-up and would love to make AR better for the newcomers who are looking to learn to PK and get in the mix. More blood for the blood god. I would not mind a pve-class freelancer either given that they are eventually going to leave that behind them for greener pastures (when ready), it seems like no problem whatsoever.

However, the other player is looking to permanently avoid combat. I see that as a completely different conversation. That player does not want to play AR the same way everyone else does. They have found some aspects of AR that they enjoy and aspects they absolutely do not and are simply looking to turn off, because it turns thems off. However, neither is it really that much effort to just run away. There was another thread somewhere I think Kornhole said, it would be cool if the monk beads could strangle, and that's a good example of having something novel in the game that enables the player to entirely avoid a PK. Similar with just gating with illusionists and shadowform, ninjas with vanish, ranger camo. I like things like that, as they are clearly part of the game design. Obviously it would be a literal game changer to turn on a pacifist mode and ignore douchebags, but coming with more rules and limitations is not something I personally feel any warmth towards.. I've seen how bad we are at enforcing descriptions

I gave this idea some thought and I definitely think it has legs. I agree that there are two different players this would appeal to: newbies and vets who don't want to dabble in PK. However, I don't think the latter would be an issue.

I don't think running away is as easy as you suggest. The addition of tracking and adding lag to recall had a big impact there. And there's recently been a healthy discussion about PK triggers + fight continues mechanic being pretty brutal if you're on the losing side of a fight. Sure, certain classes have built-in skills to escape PK with relative ease but majority do not.

Probably easier said than done (as Dav suggested) but enforcing strict rules or rigid mechanics around it (like auto outcast for eradication paladins) could help address any sort of "abuse'. E.g. if you vulture a mob kill, you get a PK flag. You troll PKers or abuse your PvE flag somehow (at discretion of Imms), you just become PK eligible.

The main reason I think this would appeal to non-newbies is precisely because AR has a lot to offer outside of PKing: questing, running content, learning fights, finding secrets, RPing, amazing depth of detail, item mechanics, Imm-run events, etc. I really like the suggestion of allowing the arena so these non-PKers can learn to PK in a safe space. I also think other incentives could be added to encourage non-PKers to embrace PK when they're ready.

I do not think you should limit the number of PvE chars on an account because I think one of the main points would be to learn different classes and mechanics at your discretion; don't force me to do it one class at a time. Sometimes I roll something when I'm inspired and then shelve it and come back when my interest piques again.

Obviously strict rules and penalties could be enforced. Anywhere from just outright denial and loss of character, to automatically gaining a PK flag like Mogu suggested, except that I think if this were to happen, they would NOT lose the inability to have rares. It can't be a free ride to 50 and then all of sudden a normal character, no, they'd keep the downsides but lose the upside.

So my two cents. I wouldn't have a problem giving something like this a test run, to see if it increases players online, and wasn't abused. I would limit it to one per account, and put some strict restrictions in place. No rares or uniques, no trolling, strict rp adherence etc. We create a new flag, like the reputable, and elite, called the Troll, and if you get that flag, you lose access to elite only characters, and the ability to make an rp based character.

My thoughts are, the last couple of weeks I have been logged in, and had an 'enemy' pk log in, and instantly they started running, to escape the possibility of being forced into pk. Now in all those instances, they were people I hadn't interacted with before, and so I am communicating with them while chasing. Had I of just chased and not tried to talk to them first, and gone for the silent pk, I could have prevented them from leaving, but because I took time to talk, they were able to run away, and log out instantly at the 5 minute timer. So those are characters who aren't going to play. One thing i suggest is changing the five minute timer to 15 minutes. Don't log in unless you have 15 minutes to play, Anyways, it would be better if those people who didn't want to fight had another avenue. They could then play and interact etc. PVE mode would be a way for this, but it would have to be permanent, and if you screw up you get denied not forced into one or the other.

I find that an attempt to sell this idea as making the game better for newbies seems a bit of a salesman tactic. it tugs at the heart-strings but it doesn't really ring true as helping newbies, and I don't really like to see newcomers being exploited as bargaining chips in that way. At worst, it seems a desperate attempt to get more logins, and in doing so it risks looking pathetic. Would you really want to flush the dignity of the ageing game just to get a few extra logins?


As I've read through the thread, I saw plenty of awareness of the red flags:

vertas: "why run end game content if you can't use rares?"
voidwitch: "this will further silo RP players away from PK players, and we'll all be playing two separate games"
lionSpyre: "I would love some suggestions for how a Knight can reckon with the RP that their supposed to purge the world of evil... oh except THAT guy. Same goes for Legion. Bend the world to your will, but not THAT lady. At the moment, I can't reconcile how I would approach this from an RP perspective"
Ceridwel: * mic drops a thread where we already destroyed this idea before as being inferior to just playing Animal Crossing *
hamsamwich: " reinforce that the PvE characters are NOT a part of the world. They're somehow different from everyone else. Maybe they're "spirits" or "ghosts""
Mogu: enforcing strict rules or rigid mechanics around it (like auto outcast for eradication paladins) could help address any sort of "abuse'. E.g. if you vulture a mob kill, you get a PK flag.

This is truly a case of one great examples after another. It is screaming at you - don't go this road. Turn back.


I think this can backfire in a big way.. and here's why. In the bigger picture here, the request is a bargain with the devil (me). You are requesting more safety (from PK) in return for loss of freedoms (not allowed to use rares, not allowed to help people in PK, etc). The long term outlook for that is bleak, as outside of Avenar RP events you would have way less things to do in the game, you would be under HEAVY surveillance to make sure you are in line, and contending with BRUTAL punishment from the imms that will be much more severe than any player just pk'ing you and lookting some gold. And I can guaran-dam-tee you that those thumbscrews will get tightened over the years forward.

You can just say "it's my game and I don't wanna. I think everybody knew that was the outcome at the top of this here thing. Even that sentence is just the succinct version "not interested in just slapping it on, would take effort to do well, and that's not where I want to focus dev effort". All dev, and all ideas, have attached opportunity cost. It is known.

I guess I just don't see the point in a pho debate? I think it could be good for AR. It's not what AR is. I don't see how that ever could be without a level 60 implementor in charge of it as a significant and separate effort which also seems very unlikely.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of valid points here, but Dav's last post, pointing out direct challenges other players post are a big deal too. I am fine with having or not having this, as one way or the other, I am a PKer, and would never roll a PVE character, that just would be a lot of time invested for me to play part of the game. I did/do think it would be an option for newbies, but Dav is right, it would be like people playing different games, so I get it.

I have been reading this thread and was sitting on it for a while.

I asked myself what kept me playing this game for so long and what sets this game apart from the million other games on steam.

Long story short, it's the adrenaline from PK. The blood pumping that makes my hands shake and the intense focus when going down to the line against another powerful enemy. All these comes from the high stakes on the line probably akin to what gamblers feel.

Making AR a maple story wont do it any good imo.

Following up on this would be to level weaker PK players. Create more tools to help newbies level up.

Some examples would be:

Quest tutorials to teach newbies.
Create more PK threads in the forums focused on teaching PK
Kalists PK videos were awesome
Codex being able to be updates more easily instead of just appraising or from mystics

The more high level PKers there are, the better AR will be.

I mean, that is what makes AR special.
But it's also what makes it empty. People aren't always up for those kinds of stakes.
So do you care enough to try to keep what it is but also let it be something else?
That's what this whole thread was about, right?
But if the people who run it don't see equal value in the something else then there is no point. It'll inevitably just become a distraction from what it is.

But I suppose that's what makes me like voidwitch. I also always want the communities to mix occasionally. I love the idea of the story players doing their low stakes thing and the PK their high stakes thing but the cross over and it culminates in an event where everybody puts their shit on the line. But that's just me.

(By which I mean even if there is a PVE only flag I think Avenar should be able to run an event that disables that flag. Throw down event. )

Merlandox, that is an interesting and totally fair perspective.

I imagine one thing which turns some people off from the game in general (but PKing is a direct extension of it) is realizing that the veterans have many years of experience over them and it can feel difficult to close the gap. Even 10 or 11 years ago, I realized I was playing with some people who had a decade or more of experience - I took a break for several years, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who swore they would never come back here yet they came back eventually. I may have taken a 37-month long break, but I *did* come back. Enough of that tangent...

As far as PKing characters go, there's many ways to start out or play. One example of a character type I might consider: a shaman in Justice who chooses the long arm of the law bane could be a good introduction to several concepts - attrition warfare, tracking, cabal warfare, and perhaps getting your feet wet with playing an evil character

PvE does however get you familiar with the areas, and I have found sometimes that people overlook what to me seems like an "obvious" location when I'm trying to rest and recuperate without interruption. Ranking alone can get you familiar with a large percentage of the game, and this combined with some basic knowledge (like where to find Elemental Canyon for the fiery daggers, where the hobgoblins and other sources of sanctuary potions lie, what sets of equipment (and where to find their pieces) that you might use either as a base for your equipment or simply as a temporary source of gear, etc.) can get you off to a good starting point.

I'm against it for the fact that it's fundamentally against the core concept of the game. Roleplay is also intrinsically tied to that and a lot of times mindless pk interferes with that. I honestly don't know the solution to it but removing pk from certain players would also shut down pve. The whole point of pve is to kill the big bads to get the legendary equipment to have the power to eliminate your enemies. A lot of the best RP I have comes from or leads to pk interaction. It definitely doesn't serve any purpose when people don't interact and just steamroll through their pk range putting points up on the board, but that's something we as a community need to address and improve. There's plenty of ways right now to avoid fights if you want to without people having an actual opt out. For newbies I could see raising the pk level to 25, or when you have a rare. Would make sense as the lowest rares are around that level. People who farm under 20 pk range are just scum anyway.

"We have recently had several new players that have struggled to learn the game fast enough before being driven away by extremely expert PKers that we have in our playerbase. "


NAME AND SHAME - one pk with good RP and no looting is totally reasonable if the circumstances are right (maybe at high level...) but if it's anything other than that (e.g. silent pk +/- looting or repeated pk of an obv noob even with rp) and done by a clear vet then that is wildly obsurd. I can't even fathom killing a newbie myself, let alone any of the above scenarios.

I have numerous posts on reddit trying to persuade new players to try AR saying that we are an RP enforced, PK encouraged mud, where we welcome new players and try to help them learn. I say the player base self enforces a code of conduct wherein veterans will kill people who are picking on newbies.

In my mind this is the way.

If a newbie comes to AR, every single other player should try to help them. The only scenario where it is even remotely reasonable to kill a new player is if they are lipping you off in game and your alignment is such that killing them makes sense. Any other scenario (ie a seasoned veteral steamrolling a newbie) should be highly scrutinized and punished. I don't EVER want to see a seasoned vet stomping a newbie at any level at all. I sure as hell wouldn't do that. I expect the same from my peers.

AR is an incredibly fun and diverse game but PK is an integral part of that. I am all for encouraging new people to join and am in favour of making life as easy as possible for newbies (def a steep learning curve) but I think the 'PK' thing is better served by self policing of vets vs making it possible to play totally free of PK.

I'm not dogmatic though, it's completely possible to persuade me to the contrary but that's my current thought on the matter.


"But it's also what makes it empty. People aren't always up for those kinds of stakes."
-Scrynor, I feel you in my soul - honestly and completely. Sometimes I just don't /want/ to log on and go balls to the walls fighting 1v2 or 1v3 with my cabal item gone (ie skeggi). Sometimes I have like 20 mins of computer time at the end of the night when kids are down, wife isn't up for any shenanignas and i don't have to go to bed right away. I just want to chill and surf the web and maybe spam some spells. I obv can't log on a legion at that time when there are 4 active AF knights but I know I can log on a lowbie and maybe get a level or two or log on a 20 and get better at armor a bit. No it's not as fun as logging a 50 and improving a useful skill/spell but it's kind of the compromise I've come up with in my life. Some people would look at that and be like 'yeah nah mate I'll just play a diff game entirely for that 20 mins'. I don't know how to make it easier for them to come over to my way and log on AR for that 20 mins but I think that's def something worth delving into. Like I said I don't think making a PVE only stream is the best way to do that but I totally think it's worth thinking about.


This isn't "hello kitty island adventure". This is the goddamned Abandoned Realms, afterall. The best adrenaline-pumping, hand-shaking, PK mud on the goddamn planet. We do have a massive amount of lore and RP to offer though and I would love to see people embrace it but part of the fun is the danger..

Also thanks merlando for the shout out! I'll be happy to make more vids once renos complete and I'm able to!

This thread is probably totally dead as far as "pve mode" is concerned and we can salvage a few newbie ideas out of it, maybe one or two we adopt. I split Arunore's freelancer thing out into a new thread. BUT, its probably not what got it started in the first place.

Avenar had (I'm deliberately ommiting a bit of this):
"
"Sometimes you just want to chill... with others without constantly looking over your shoulder for someone to interrupt your RP scene..... We should support this kind of fun."


I think it would not ruin the game or alienate everybody if it was possible that the herald imm (currently this is Avenar) could blow a big ol' Herald bugle heard across the world and that would both signal and make it so that the Herald tavern is safe for an hour or two for rp purposes. It'd be easy to implement that and let him specify the duration, without enabling any risk-free winter runs or risk-free exp and the like, and if needed we can come up with regulations around for what purposes it is appropriate for Avenar to blow the horn. Like if an event is running or close to starting. That is also easily doable at code level .

Actually if you guys think about it, is it risky to run a 3 man winter run with a big bad legion around? You kill the guardian you bring the key in. The only possibility is getting summoned. Slap on 100 mental saves and you are good to go.

Firstly he doesn't have the key in. If for whatever reason he decides to enter, you just 3 man gang him inside winter, he's not gonna survive. It's super safe in my opinion.

Slapping on 100 mental saves still slows your run down, and there is a chance they hit the summon before you. The main obstacle is gonna be that you are in combat which prevents a summon IIRC.

@Kalist there are wives who are not always up for shenanigans? So sorry man.

A winter run being a dangerous PK situation isn't really the point. It's more Kalist's response to my post. There are tons of times where I want to log on and don't because just know I have a hard limit of only 20 minutes and don't want to risk getting pulled into a thing my play window can't support.

I think the Immortal driven herald horn is a cool idea.

Here are some other ideas I had while reading that one:

- Just make more aggressive use of events via the Consortium? Maybe give a flag to designate them sub events? Heralds could even open then at request for other people. If the website showed "Tavern chillin' with Trillian starts in 3 hours" or "Foggledonk goes to Winter looking for Codex updates" maybe that would help newer people get in on these things, talk to people, get immerses, gear up, experience harder content, etc.

- What about a benign log in option? After you log in, get asked if you want it to be benign? If you say yes, you enter with no PK flag, take triple damage, get auto logged out after 20 minutes, and the character is locked out for 8 hours.
Something like that. Let people bring their high profile character in world just to chat even when they know they can't play long

W/o reading all the blahblah on this thread, i'd just wanna say that you've always been able to make a PVE-only char just by developing your character from your align and ethos to your RP. Now who was that stone giant who only ever did pve with all and everyone? Nobody ever was really after him etc.

I suppose people want to make pve chars so they can fill their eq list with drip and then drool over it w/o having any risks for the reward? That's why people play wow not AR i thought..

ronk I think this is honestly just driven by wanting an rp
session that drives story along, avenar puts in a lot of work.
nobody attacks in those events as far as im aware so it seems not too big a deal to me, but if they are on edge its probably not great for something that is being imm-hosted. its for sure not for hoarding, avenar doesnt put out 20 hrs a month of that

Not directly on topic but I want to point out that Avenar has made the game more interesting and fun.

Also, taking part in the events is an easy way to gain relics and chips. Chips are otherwise difficult or extremely expensive to obtain (100 medals for 10 chips with the fortuitous prize is not a good conversion rate). I don't know whether too many relics are awarded during the course of some events, but it often feels like I end up with a lot more than I had previously after an event has happened. Sometimes it feels like possibly too many with how easily they can be obtained at times, but on the other hand that *is* a good incentive to take part...

PS. Merlandox, just because you have three or more people in a group in Winter and can't easily be summoned yourself doesn't mean you're not in danger. I don't know how many times I've met people who simply don't know what to do in a group fight and chaos ensues once a fight breaks out.

I have both killed all three people in a 3v1, and died in a 3v1 where I was one of the three haha.

Hey, I'm a new player and I would like to give my thoughts on it.

I used to don't like PvP and didn't really wanted to participate on it. But I had a ton of fun dueling Korvak, who I consider a friend. The thing is, I used to avoid PvP because I suck at it and don't understand the nuances. I say used because I must thank Eira for this. Even if we are kinda of "enemies", interactions with her made my day. Having her wrecking havock on the healers guild to get me and I was desperately trying to quit, afraid of dying and losing my stuff, made my heart pounding like crazy. Tons of fun! After all the vessel thing (which I don't regret at all, because it was a really good RP moment), I searched for Korvak to teach me some PvP, which I enjoyed a lot.

Now, I feel myself wanting to PvP, not solo because I suck at it, but I'm pretty sure I would have tons of fun, if I joined someone to PK, like PK partners. What I really want to say is, the feeling of AR being dangerous is awesome! If it had the option of PvE only and choose it, probably I wouldn't have 1/10 of the fun I had. Also, probably my vessel arc wouldn't happen and I would have lost SO MUCH! I think that if the player need to be PvE only to enjoy AR, it think he's on the wrong game. What makes exploration so fun also, is the danger of you being really far, kinda lost and suddenly, some evil murderer suddenly appears on your PK range and you are running for your life, cursing that you didn't brought recall potions. Or you are exploring somewhere and an evil guy is near and you have to keep aura up because at any moment, he can gank you. Isn't the danger, what makes exploration so fun?

Sorry if I overextended myself, but I found a new passion that is this amazing realm.