Q2 2024 Patch : Whats that, a SEPTEMBER surprise?
Davairus
Posts: 10674
9/28/2024, 9:17:07 PM
General / TLDR
* We introduced concept of "prime hours" for gaining sovereigns from playing during surge. prime hours are tracked per fortnight (i.e. two weeks) and max out at a limit that is currently a placeholder. Earned sovereigns can be spent on reinforce armor/weapon in seringale. These prime hours show in your score.
* We introduced the ability to have saves dependent on exactly which spell was used, for more small niche cases e.g. a quasit now naturally gets a bonus to save the summon spell.
* We changed mounts movement costs to match flying cost w/ athleticism instead of always 1 mv per room.
* We added honing (a new method for training skills).
* We are introducing the "blood realm" - killing certain creatures in certain areas will increase your awareness of the creatures of the blood realm, and their awareness of you. Mobs will be added a later date wherever we notice a need for such a thing (e.g. heavily-grinded areas).
* Advisory: Dazed effect - see below
AND...
Imm promotions for Avenar (53 to 54), Dogran (53 to 54) and Varliv (51 to 52)
Areas
* Shopkeeper base gold now refreshes hourly instead of needing to wait for reboots.
* Mobs are now stunned correctly.
Items
* Our weapon weight audit has been completed for realistic historical weights for ALL weapon types.
* The dual wield weight limit has been adjusted to reflect that our weapons have lower weights.
* There is now a string of tomatoes that can be worn. this will refill hunger/thirst if worn. this item is sold for relics by Ming in timaran. it is expensive, meant for times of lag / note writing.
* New command "locate" - use at echuir in seringale, or any cauldron. requires a druid shard and a couple key objects I picked out. this is a way to locate object without having to multi your invoker.
- On that note.. don't let me catch you locating for alts with your invoker..
Races
* New available race/class: human druid, void-elf psi, avian ranger, pixie invoker, storm giant monk
Storm Giant: Through generations of shipbuilding, the seafaring storm giants have overcome their aversion to carrying wooden items. They no longer suffer exposure (weakness) to wood.
Jagar: Now gains a "pounce" affect after 2 ticks of staying completely still (i.e. no input). This allows the jagar to run at lightning speed for a few moments.
Stone giant: made it possible to eat gems for food, yum. eating a gem grinds it into a magic shard.
Quasit: This race is now difficult to summon due to a supernatural paranoia of capture. Quasits gained the ability to fly and land, but now also suffer a significant penalty to weight capacity while not flying.
Classes
Advisory: Dazed effect
All classes/races can now have an equilibrium that limits how many times they can switch weapons in a short time before losing their balance. The affect is called "off balance". If you notice it nearing its tipping point, let it wear off. This is only going to come into play if you are affected by one of the skills that cause dizziness. Blackjacks, headbutts, uppercuts. Bash/bodyslam are not included in that list currently. Note that a spell that makes your face looked dazed is not the same as being considered dizzy.
Warrior
* Custom warcry can now be removed with "warcry none"
* (also affects berserker) -> if a weapon is arming they arent able to begin overhead until the weapon is ready. this replaces the issue with wearing shields too fast to block overhead, which should no longer be a problem.
* Hobble is also less effective if done while the weapon is being armed. it still does the damage, but not the special affect. wait and time it properly before using.
* Double grip now lags for 6 pulse, matching the time to arm weapons.
* Double-gripping while dirt kicked or barraged leads to an additional round delay to balance its utility escaping these situations.
Ranger
* scout now adds a chance to increase the radius of scan when used with a direction.
* Pet boars now have a chance to chase after a dirt kicked opponent on flee (n.b. not the blurry phase, just the blinded phase). this works in forest, fields, and hills, except in towns.
* The carve skill gained a javelins option.
* Nether shroud: new ability for void-elf with two affects:
1) void ranger-specific beasts now take similar reduced damage if the void ranger has tenacity or sanctuary in effect.
2) It makes the ranger difficult to perceive. Some things impacted are - consider, track, hides their white aura.
* Twilight shot: new ability for void-elf, you use this to fire an arrow into adjoining room. it leaves a void effect on the room for a while that prevents any further arrows being shot in that direction. the arrow will hit any mobs there. its presence causes that area to be silenced briefly. (its not possible to fire twilight arrow into a room that is already in the void)
* pro-tip: use twilight arrow with void trap to bait mobs into your trap, then let your pet consume the void-trapped mob to get JACKED.
* n.b. the above two new skills replaced "double disarm" for void-elf
Dark-knight
* gained iron will to mirror paladin's willpower gauge (except its for evil). spiteful strike, strike of pain and the new siphon strike all go off this resource.
** with this we also introduce the DK golden rule: anything that spends mana for damage generates an amount of willpower. anything that spends this resource for damage generates mana. so spamming one thing leads to bankruptcy. requires a binded weapon wielded or unholy str or souleater
** additional clarifying note - this is not currently used to prevent getting lagged by skills, as dark-knights are on the offense.
* Gained skill extort to tie in with the evil willpower theme. N.B. this is the "shop discount" variation of extort, not stealing items.
* An elf paladin that became a demon-elf dark-knight will no longer be flagged "outcast".
* New ability : "siphon strike". a low damage skill that heals a percentage of the dark-knights maximum health.
2024/12/16 - more updates were made on DK after feedback came in
important ones
* any dk spell which gains +hp or +mana is also scaled to the mob level difference
* a few physical skills gain willpower. kick = 10, trip 10, bash 15
* lowered windup time of pulverize and added will gain
* added souleater to lawful DK which can be read about
* updated bind weapon to require the DKN to exp the weapon on mobs, playerkills will just be a level bonus. bind weapons now save their enchant correctly. the weapons scale correctly now e.g. whips will be d3, daggers d4 etc.
* added frostbite into chill touch behind a second save mal check, requires multiple stacks of chill touch to attempt, but does open this up to other classes which can cast chill touch. casting penalty is 5 levels like landing blindness. also, similarly is a lucky thing that doesnt always come out.
* added mana gain to energy drain (it already drains mana anyway, so sapping it made sense) and removed its mv drain since this looked completely useless. this was already behind a save mal check. the loss/gain depends on its damage, so itll scale properly. this spell is 35 mana and does little damage so im not sure if this is going to be useful, but see siphon strike below.
* updated spiteful strike and siphon strike to just do chill touch and energy drain's after effects (not the damage). both effects come out 1/3 of the time so its not going to dominate the game while still having a decent impact when it comes out. chance of seeing these effects can be increased with +luck.
** note: if these spells are not practiced and trained the DK won't do them, so thats up to you.
* spiteful strikes no longer stack with wild hits and damage is now in line with other similar skills
* fixed avian pestilence aura and added some malbreak to it since avians are 15 con and that makes this hard to justify wearing.
minor ones
* extort only works while buying with gold
* updated spellstrike to be a spell and fixed the damage
* updated abyssal bulwark to be a casted spell again.
* refresh spell removes frostbite. (paladins and healers have this spell, there are also potions)
* added willpower gain to shirks
* fixed magic missile spell damage and reduced it to 10 mana, see helpfile
* auras now save safely over reboot
* moved some skill levels around for better levelling flow and to reduce overcrowded levels
Healer
* New spell "embrace of dawn", a good-align counterpart to blasphemy. this ability is also shared with devotion-spec paladins.
2024/12/16 - more updates were made on healer after feedback
* accession spell now allows the healer to use prudence without having to sit in fight doing nothing
* refresh now removes frostbite as mentioned above
* castigate now drains DK willpower, berserker fury, vampire whatever we called it
Shaman
Dysentery is now cureable via 'cure disease'.
Illusionist
*detect magic: it is now possible to type "look" to see if groupmates are hasted, slowed, enlarged, etc. It used symbols, similarly to detect trap. example:
* dreamstruck: this should now cap at -15 save vs mental, there is no further benefit to hitroll in dreamstruck beyond that point.
deceive: new mechanic used for the blur dodge, phantasms, hob sparks, misdirection, terrain etc. (marionettes and color sprays are not deceptions). Here is a quick rundown.
* in order to deceive your enemy, you first have to succeed ventriloquate skill check.
* after that, each skill or spell subject to deceive checks is assigned a difficulty - this difficulty is based on the believability of the illusionists lie. For the sake of explaining it, suppose that a rating 8-12 = easy, 13-17 = medium, 18-22 = difficult to pull off, 23+= very hard lie, that almost nobody would believe no matter how good you are at telling lies.
* roll 1-20 against the above difficulty numbers and add a small factor based on your wisdom. If you pull off the deceive you get a flat cast bonus similar magnitude to mental vulnerability.
* n.b. certain spells and affects (feeblemind, dreamstruck, mirage, being drunk, etc) may further help you deceive your opponent.
Invoker
The goal here was to finally get the air invoker setup and take the opportunity to refocus their slows into a specialization.
* Elemental mastery now increases chance of spellcrafting an afflictive for extra damage
* Air invoker spec is now setup:
** zapping mana shield with mystic tendrils to cause a slow affect.
** zapping pass door with mystic tendrils will cause a haste affect.
* Invokers can now cast detect magic on worn/inventory items. (actually this applies to other classes, not just invokers, but it matters for amplify weapon so I mentioned it here)
Monk
This improves a couple of the most under-utilized specs for monks.
* Monk can now switch styles quicker to match the arming time of warrior.
* fists of fury now further reduces switch time, duration of affect is doubled, and it also increases activated style durations.
* We reworked the monk throw ability to do a delayed ground slam.
* new "rising dragon" skill (all specs). This is a ground stomp, so requires an opponent on the ground. (throw them or capitalize on them falling over, etc). NB- this ability is probably a little powerful at the moment, lets see how this goes. Also, PLEASE note, that this skill is considered DISHONORABLE to use, except on those who have acted DISHONORABLY.
* Prayer beads desperation strangles have returned.
* Panda style skill "belly bounce" was made baseline.
* New skill "panda plunge" for the new specialization ability.
* Mantis is now able to counterattack if the monk has combat advantage. The mechanic is identical to prudence, except with a retaliation attack instead of just an evade.
* The mantis hitroll bonus has been increased significantly to emphasize its intent for offensive CQC with warrior types.
Thief
* Dropped envenom to level 15.
* The dazed affect of blackjack now adds balance issues i.e. chance of stumble on a weapon switch.
Vampire
* The "bite" ability now rejuvenates the drained vampire.
Bard
These changes allow bards to keep their "jack of all trades" status, while also ensuring "master of none", by making sure bards can only do one thing well at a time.
*Gained dual wield and fencing.
*Auto-throw cards now requires a battle hymn.
*Performing abilities during four seasons will interrupt the song unless battle hymn is active.
*Getting lagged or kicked during four seasons interrupts the song.
*Concord hymn is now ended by brawling, and also by getting bloody adrenaline. (i.e. by attacking somebody)
*Certain offensive songs/abilities now cause bloody adrenaline when used with evasive adrenaline.
*Thrown items (cards) can be shield blocked.
*Added new song "elude the peril" this can be used to dispel decoys, void traps, tripwires, etc, in the room with the bard. This also gets the bards out of pits.
* All songs now use "Sound" as their damage category for saves.
Berserker
The primary goal here was to improve the fury mechanics "feel" and revisit the kiss-curse mechanics of the specializations.
High level important changes:
* Most skills now generate fury except the new skill, hack, and dash. Additionally a "meditate" was added to generate fury before combat if desired.
* Mania is begun or refreshed by either using the skill hack (which is 80 fury, 100% success rate) or by using swing (~30% success rate). There are no other ways to start mania.
* Raged berserker can switch weapons, wielding instantly. However, they take a wield lag instead of the arming time, and their balance is disturbed due to their out of controlness, so they have the same propensity to slip over as a dazed opponent.
* Specializations have been reduced from six to 4 specs so that we can be less shallow on each spec. If your berserker is not in an existing spec, imms will need to reset you. For brevity here I will leave the specs to your in-game reading of the new helpfile for dragon ancestry. New specs are: Fury, Magma, Power, Disaster
Misc small tweaks:
Dash: now only hits mobs if raged. less lag on failing to dash, less lag to enemy players.
Defiance: Now also blocks rakes, and adds a dex-based interaction with roar that can reduce melee damage. Roar now also causes defiance to block rakes and disarm without rage in effect.
Headbutt: now has similar dazed affect to blackjack where opponent may stumble on repeated weapon switches.
Mania: now drains fury gradually over time, which can be paused with berserk. Also increases mv regen in all positions (except sleeping, which winds up costing mv).
parry/dual parry: rage and berserk parry penalties no longer stack on top of each other for ultra crap defense.
Relax: now checked for skill-ups on ending rage, and when sleeping with mania.
Swing: No longer checks dual wield proficiency for its second hit (since this is a SKILL).
Wild smash: added a windup, now knocks everybody out of the room (with sufficient fury).
New stuff:
* meditate: Berserkers gained the meditate skill to be able to generate fury outside of combat. This cannot be used while raged or mania-induced. Its possible to trigger mania with this. If it triggers mania, the meditate will break, transferring the berserker into a sitting position.
* Thunder grasp: This replaced thunder clash. Skill will yank in enemies from adjacent rooms. Be aware you can get yourself into big trouble with this one.
If you are looking to do what thunder clash did, use wild smash instead.
Overhauls:
* FLEX: flex while raged and max fury to burst off your clothes (sleeves, chest, pants), increasing the berserkers output damage while also increases the amount of damage they take. another effect of this is that it ALSO allows the berserker to attempt ONE big bodyslam which deals extra damage, and can send their current opponent flying out of the room . The berserker can't put their clothes back on until the rage ends. requires maxed fury to use.
Each race now has a special berserker charge.
human: : charge <target name> (must be a spear)
* perform a running joust. max 4 rooms, if opponent is too far it will say too far. otherwise itll run. Can only be used periodically.
can only be used 1 per 8 ticks, otherwise its normal charge.
pixie: : charge <target name>
* can instantly teleport up to 4 rooms to hit their target. Deals bonus sneaky damnage. Relies on pixie magic and can only be used once per Serin day.
jagar: requires rage opening. if the jagar is already raged, they can charge this way too.
* if dual wielding or shield smashing, the jagar leaps on them into extreme close range and barrage with both claws. They have a chance to rake with weapon advantage as well.
dwarf/duergar: requires rage opening. if the dwarf is already raged, they can charge this way .
* if wearing dual wielded maces (or a shield smashing shield), charge slams the weapon into the ground, upheaving debris at all who get in the path. This creates lasting tremors that cause damage and several AOE minor stuns.
giants (storm/stone/fire): requires rage opening. if the giant is already raged, they can charge this way
* if they are wearing a 2H polearm or club, they leap in and land on an entire group of opponents with a flying bodyslam that can knock everyody over. This ability breaks free of anything constraining the berserker's movement, and can potentialy trigger rampage.
minotaur: Not much changed here, but added a chance to add grievous wounds to the slashing that cause some healing reduction.
* We introduced concept of "prime hours" for gaining sovereigns from playing during surge. prime hours are tracked per fortnight (i.e. two weeks) and max out at a limit that is currently a placeholder. Earned sovereigns can be spent on reinforce armor/weapon in seringale. These prime hours show in your score.
* We introduced the ability to have saves dependent on exactly which spell was used, for more small niche cases e.g. a quasit now naturally gets a bonus to save the summon spell.
* We changed mounts movement costs to match flying cost w/ athleticism instead of always 1 mv per room.
* We added honing (a new method for training skills).
* We are introducing the "blood realm" - killing certain creatures in certain areas will increase your awareness of the creatures of the blood realm, and their awareness of you. Mobs will be added a later date wherever we notice a need for such a thing (e.g. heavily-grinded areas).
* Advisory: Dazed effect - see below
AND...
Imm promotions for Avenar (53 to 54), Dogran (53 to 54) and Varliv (51 to 52)
Areas
* Shopkeeper base gold now refreshes hourly instead of needing to wait for reboots.
* Mobs are now stunned correctly.
Items
* Our weapon weight audit has been completed for realistic historical weights for ALL weapon types.
* The dual wield weight limit has been adjusted to reflect that our weapons have lower weights.
* There is now a string of tomatoes that can be worn. this will refill hunger/thirst if worn. this item is sold for relics by Ming in timaran. it is expensive, meant for times of lag / note writing.
* New command "locate" - use at echuir in seringale, or any cauldron. requires a druid shard and a couple key objects I picked out. this is a way to locate object without having to multi your invoker.
- On that note.. don't let me catch you locating for alts with your invoker..
Races
* New available race/class: human druid, void-elf psi, avian ranger, pixie invoker, storm giant monk
Storm Giant: Through generations of shipbuilding, the seafaring storm giants have overcome their aversion to carrying wooden items. They no longer suffer exposure (weakness) to wood.
Jagar: Now gains a "pounce" affect after 2 ticks of staying completely still (i.e. no input). This allows the jagar to run at lightning speed for a few moments.
Stone giant: made it possible to eat gems for food, yum. eating a gem grinds it into a magic shard.
Quasit: This race is now difficult to summon due to a supernatural paranoia of capture. Quasits gained the ability to fly and land, but now also suffer a significant penalty to weight capacity while not flying.
Classes
Advisory: Dazed effect
All classes/races can now have an equilibrium that limits how many times they can switch weapons in a short time before losing their balance. The affect is called "off balance". If you notice it nearing its tipping point, let it wear off. This is only going to come into play if you are affected by one of the skills that cause dizziness. Blackjacks, headbutts, uppercuts. Bash/bodyslam are not included in that list currently. Note that a spell that makes your face looked dazed is not the same as being considered dizzy.
Warrior
* Custom warcry can now be removed with "warcry none"
* (also affects berserker) -> if a weapon is arming they arent able to begin overhead until the weapon is ready. this replaces the issue with wearing shields too fast to block overhead, which should no longer be a problem.
* Hobble is also less effective if done while the weapon is being armed. it still does the damage, but not the special affect. wait and time it properly before using.
* Double grip now lags for 6 pulse, matching the time to arm weapons.
* Double-gripping while dirt kicked or barraged leads to an additional round delay to balance its utility escaping these situations.
Ranger
* scout now adds a chance to increase the radius of scan when used with a direction.
* Pet boars now have a chance to chase after a dirt kicked opponent on flee (n.b. not the blurry phase, just the blinded phase). this works in forest, fields, and hills, except in towns.
* The carve skill gained a javelins option.
* Nether shroud: new ability for void-elf with two affects:
1) void ranger-specific beasts now take similar reduced damage if the void ranger has tenacity or sanctuary in effect.
2) It makes the ranger difficult to perceive. Some things impacted are - consider, track, hides their white aura.
* Twilight shot: new ability for void-elf, you use this to fire an arrow into adjoining room. it leaves a void effect on the room for a while that prevents any further arrows being shot in that direction. the arrow will hit any mobs there. its presence causes that area to be silenced briefly. (its not possible to fire twilight arrow into a room that is already in the void)
* pro-tip: use twilight arrow with void trap to bait mobs into your trap, then let your pet consume the void-trapped mob to get JACKED.
* n.b. the above two new skills replaced "double disarm" for void-elf
Dark-knight
* gained iron will to mirror paladin's willpower gauge (except its for evil). spiteful strike, strike of pain and the new siphon strike all go off this resource.
** with this we also introduce the DK golden rule: anything that spends mana for damage generates an amount of willpower. anything that spends this resource for damage generates mana. so spamming one thing leads to bankruptcy. requires a binded weapon wielded or unholy str or souleater
** additional clarifying note - this is not currently used to prevent getting lagged by skills, as dark-knights are on the offense.
* Gained skill extort to tie in with the evil willpower theme. N.B. this is the "shop discount" variation of extort, not stealing items.
* An elf paladin that became a demon-elf dark-knight will no longer be flagged "outcast".
* New ability : "siphon strike". a low damage skill that heals a percentage of the dark-knights maximum health.
2024/12/16 - more updates were made on DK after feedback came in
important ones
* any dk spell which gains +hp or +mana is also scaled to the mob level difference
* a few physical skills gain willpower. kick = 10, trip 10, bash 15
* lowered windup time of pulverize and added will gain
* added souleater to lawful DK which can be read about
* updated bind weapon to require the DKN to exp the weapon on mobs, playerkills will just be a level bonus. bind weapons now save their enchant correctly. the weapons scale correctly now e.g. whips will be d3, daggers d4 etc.
* added frostbite into chill touch behind a second save mal check, requires multiple stacks of chill touch to attempt, but does open this up to other classes which can cast chill touch. casting penalty is 5 levels like landing blindness. also, similarly is a lucky thing that doesnt always come out.
* added mana gain to energy drain (it already drains mana anyway, so sapping it made sense) and removed its mv drain since this looked completely useless. this was already behind a save mal check. the loss/gain depends on its damage, so itll scale properly. this spell is 35 mana and does little damage so im not sure if this is going to be useful, but see siphon strike below.
* updated spiteful strike and siphon strike to just do chill touch and energy drain's after effects (not the damage). both effects come out 1/3 of the time so its not going to dominate the game while still having a decent impact when it comes out. chance of seeing these effects can be increased with +luck.
** note: if these spells are not practiced and trained the DK won't do them, so thats up to you.
* spiteful strikes no longer stack with wild hits and damage is now in line with other similar skills
* fixed avian pestilence aura and added some malbreak to it since avians are 15 con and that makes this hard to justify wearing.
minor ones
* extort only works while buying with gold
* updated spellstrike to be a spell and fixed the damage
* updated abyssal bulwark to be a casted spell again.
* refresh spell removes frostbite. (paladins and healers have this spell, there are also potions)
* added willpower gain to shirks
* fixed magic missile spell damage and reduced it to 10 mana, see helpfile
* auras now save safely over reboot
* moved some skill levels around for better levelling flow and to reduce overcrowded levels
Healer
* New spell "embrace of dawn", a good-align counterpart to blasphemy. this ability is also shared with devotion-spec paladins.
2024/12/16 - more updates were made on healer after feedback
* accession spell now allows the healer to use prudence without having to sit in fight doing nothing
* refresh now removes frostbite as mentioned above
* castigate now drains DK willpower, berserker fury, vampire whatever we called it
Shaman
Dysentery is now cureable via 'cure disease'.
Illusionist
*detect magic: it is now possible to type "look" to see if groupmates are hasted, slowed, enlarged, etc. It used symbols, similarly to detect trap. example:
(Charmed) [>+@] A bright red effigy of Young Jim guards its master.
> : the haste symbol. slow is <
+ : the enlarge symbol. shrink is -
@ : the giant strength symbol
* dreamstruck: this should now cap at -15 save vs mental, there is no further benefit to hitroll in dreamstruck beyond that point.
deceive: new mechanic used for the blur dodge, phantasms, hob sparks, misdirection, terrain etc. (marionettes and color sprays are not deceptions). Here is a quick rundown.
* in order to deceive your enemy, you first have to succeed ventriloquate skill check.
* after that, each skill or spell subject to deceive checks is assigned a difficulty - this difficulty is based on the believability of the illusionists lie. For the sake of explaining it, suppose that a rating 8-12 = easy, 13-17 = medium, 18-22 = difficult to pull off, 23+= very hard lie, that almost nobody would believe no matter how good you are at telling lies.
* roll 1-20 against the above difficulty numbers and add a small factor based on your wisdom. If you pull off the deceive you get a flat cast bonus similar magnitude to mental vulnerability.
* n.b. certain spells and affects (feeblemind, dreamstruck, mirage, being drunk, etc) may further help you deceive your opponent.
Invoker
The goal here was to finally get the air invoker setup and take the opportunity to refocus their slows into a specialization.
* Elemental mastery now increases chance of spellcrafting an afflictive for extra damage
* Air invoker spec is now setup:
** zapping mana shield with mystic tendrils to cause a slow affect.
** zapping pass door with mystic tendrils will cause a haste affect.
* Invokers can now cast detect magic on worn/inventory items. (actually this applies to other classes, not just invokers, but it matters for amplify weapon so I mentioned it here)
Monk
This improves a couple of the most under-utilized specs for monks.
* Monk can now switch styles quicker to match the arming time of warrior.
* fists of fury now further reduces switch time, duration of affect is doubled, and it also increases activated style durations.
* We reworked the monk throw ability to do a delayed ground slam.
* new "rising dragon" skill (all specs). This is a ground stomp, so requires an opponent on the ground. (throw them or capitalize on them falling over, etc). NB- this ability is probably a little powerful at the moment, lets see how this goes. Also, PLEASE note, that this skill is considered DISHONORABLE to use, except on those who have acted DISHONORABLY.
* Prayer beads desperation strangles have returned.
* Panda style skill "belly bounce" was made baseline.
* New skill "panda plunge" for the new specialization ability.
* Mantis is now able to counterattack if the monk has combat advantage. The mechanic is identical to prudence, except with a retaliation attack instead of just an evade.
* The mantis hitroll bonus has been increased significantly to emphasize its intent for offensive CQC with warrior types.
Thief
* Dropped envenom to level 15.
* The dazed affect of blackjack now adds balance issues i.e. chance of stumble on a weapon switch.
Vampire
* The "bite" ability now rejuvenates the drained vampire.
Bard
These changes allow bards to keep their "jack of all trades" status, while also ensuring "master of none", by making sure bards can only do one thing well at a time.
*Gained dual wield and fencing.
*Auto-throw cards now requires a battle hymn.
*Performing abilities during four seasons will interrupt the song unless battle hymn is active.
*Getting lagged or kicked during four seasons interrupts the song.
*Concord hymn is now ended by brawling, and also by getting bloody adrenaline. (i.e. by attacking somebody)
*Certain offensive songs/abilities now cause bloody adrenaline when used with evasive adrenaline.
*Thrown items (cards) can be shield blocked.
*Added new song "elude the peril" this can be used to dispel decoys, void traps, tripwires, etc, in the room with the bard. This also gets the bards out of pits.
* All songs now use "Sound" as their damage category for saves.
Berserker
The primary goal here was to improve the fury mechanics "feel" and revisit the kiss-curse mechanics of the specializations.
High level important changes:
* Most skills now generate fury except the new skill, hack, and dash. Additionally a "meditate" was added to generate fury before combat if desired.
* Mania is begun or refreshed by either using the skill hack (which is 80 fury, 100% success rate) or by using swing (~30% success rate). There are no other ways to start mania.
* Raged berserker can switch weapons, wielding instantly. However, they take a wield lag instead of the arming time, and their balance is disturbed due to their out of controlness, so they have the same propensity to slip over as a dazed opponent.
* Specializations have been reduced from six to 4 specs so that we can be less shallow on each spec. If your berserker is not in an existing spec, imms will need to reset you. For brevity here I will leave the specs to your in-game reading of the new helpfile for dragon ancestry. New specs are: Fury, Magma, Power, Disaster
Misc small tweaks:
Dash: now only hits mobs if raged. less lag on failing to dash, less lag to enemy players.
Defiance: Now also blocks rakes, and adds a dex-based interaction with roar that can reduce melee damage. Roar now also causes defiance to block rakes and disarm without rage in effect.
Headbutt: now has similar dazed affect to blackjack where opponent may stumble on repeated weapon switches.
Mania: now drains fury gradually over time, which can be paused with berserk. Also increases mv regen in all positions (except sleeping, which winds up costing mv).
parry/dual parry: rage and berserk parry penalties no longer stack on top of each other for ultra crap defense.
Relax: now checked for skill-ups on ending rage, and when sleeping with mania.
Swing: No longer checks dual wield proficiency for its second hit (since this is a SKILL).
Wild smash: added a windup, now knocks everybody out of the room (with sufficient fury).
New stuff:
* meditate: Berserkers gained the meditate skill to be able to generate fury outside of combat. This cannot be used while raged or mania-induced. Its possible to trigger mania with this. If it triggers mania, the meditate will break, transferring the berserker into a sitting position.
* Thunder grasp: This replaced thunder clash. Skill will yank in enemies from adjacent rooms. Be aware you can get yourself into big trouble with this one.
If you are looking to do what thunder clash did, use wild smash instead.
Overhauls:
* FLEX: flex while raged and max fury to burst off your clothes (sleeves, chest, pants), increasing the berserkers output damage while also increases the amount of damage they take. another effect of this is that it ALSO allows the berserker to attempt ONE big bodyslam which deals extra damage, and can send their current opponent flying out of the room . The berserker can't put their clothes back on until the rage ends. requires maxed fury to use.
Each race now has a special berserker charge.
human: : charge <target name> (must be a spear)
* perform a running joust. max 4 rooms, if opponent is too far it will say too far. otherwise itll run. Can only be used periodically.
can only be used 1 per 8 ticks, otherwise its normal charge.
pixie: : charge <target name>
* can instantly teleport up to 4 rooms to hit their target. Deals bonus sneaky damnage. Relies on pixie magic and can only be used once per Serin day.
jagar: requires rage opening. if the jagar is already raged, they can charge this way too.
* if dual wielding or shield smashing, the jagar leaps on them into extreme close range and barrage with both claws. They have a chance to rake with weapon advantage as well.
dwarf/duergar: requires rage opening. if the dwarf is already raged, they can charge this way .
* if wearing dual wielded maces (or a shield smashing shield), charge slams the weapon into the ground, upheaving debris at all who get in the path. This creates lasting tremors that cause damage and several AOE minor stuns.
giants (storm/stone/fire): requires rage opening. if the giant is already raged, they can charge this way
* if they are wearing a 2H polearm or club, they leap in and land on an entire group of opponents with a flying bodyslam that can knock everyody over. This ability breaks free of anything constraining the berserker's movement, and can potentialy trigger rampage.
minotaur: Not much changed here, but added a chance to add grievous wounds to the slashing that cause some healing reduction.
Grayden
Posts: 658
9/29/2024, 1:05:24 AM
The berserker stuff us fun. Especially the rage therapy version of meditation and ripping off closes.
Thanks again for keeping things interesting.
Thanks again for keeping things interesting.
hamsandwich
Posts: 268
9/29/2024, 3:48:00 AM
Wow. Look at all that. Awesome stuff guys.
I have a question purely out of curiosity: what's the protocol on these kind of updates and existing players gaining new skills? Let's say Ractor - to use a familiar name - doesn't have any practices left. He just doesn't get to practice the newly added skills? Or do you give him free practices so he essentially gets more than any other minotaur? Or do you like undo an hp train or something and give him the 10 practices from that?
Also, just noticing off the top of my head here, the double duration to fists of fury means monks won't be able to move rooms for quite awhile. Interesting.
The spell dependent saves are going to be baked into items now? Like some kind of necklace that makes you specifically resist hellstream? Cool stuff.
I'm curious to figure out what some of the new stuff even means! And storm giant monks!?! Hahah. Awesome
I have a question purely out of curiosity: what's the protocol on these kind of updates and existing players gaining new skills? Let's say Ractor - to use a familiar name - doesn't have any practices left. He just doesn't get to practice the newly added skills? Or do you give him free practices so he essentially gets more than any other minotaur? Or do you like undo an hp train or something and give him the 10 practices from that?
Also, just noticing off the top of my head here, the double duration to fists of fury means monks won't be able to move rooms for quite awhile. Interesting.
The spell dependent saves are going to be baked into items now? Like some kind of necklace that makes you specifically resist hellstream? Cool stuff.
I'm curious to figure out what some of the new stuff even means! And storm giant monks!?! Hahah. Awesome
Davairus
Posts: 10674
9/29/2024, 6:06:33 AM
If the player doesnt have enough pracs we offer them a deal of 5 pracs for 10 hp.
ivindel
Posts: 210
9/29/2024, 8:04:43 AM
Sorry, but I don't understand why there is a need to nerf warriors further than where they already were (especially the double grip lag):
- Nerfing hobble because too many people complaining that hobble is too good? Ever wondered why warriors are so dependent on hobble now because all other combat skills have been reduced to being useless. Fine, less effective when weapon is being armed still sounds relatively reasonable to me.
- Nerfing overhead? Overhead already opens the warrior up to all attacks during the windup and it's not as if the overhead will hands down win the warrior the fight. Since it's already a useless skill already, fine nerf it all you want to the likes of sideswipe and barrage.
- Doublegripping while dirted/barraged leading to a round delay to balance its utility escaping these situations? Sounds reasonable to me since there should be a proper tradeoff since most people don't sacrifice that offhand weapon or shield that the warlord warrior drops when doublegripping blinded anyway.
- Double grip lags for 6 pulse??!?!?!?!?! seriously, what is this? Everytime the warrior swaps to two handed, he has to lag close to half a round (6 pulses is like what? 1.2 seconds)??? Come on, you might as well tell me to delete all my warriors now. This is a death sentence.
- Nerfing hobble because too many people complaining that hobble is too good? Ever wondered why warriors are so dependent on hobble now because all other combat skills have been reduced to being useless. Fine, less effective when weapon is being armed still sounds relatively reasonable to me.
- Nerfing overhead? Overhead already opens the warrior up to all attacks during the windup and it's not as if the overhead will hands down win the warrior the fight. Since it's already a useless skill already, fine nerf it all you want to the likes of sideswipe and barrage.
- Doublegripping while dirted/barraged leading to a round delay to balance its utility escaping these situations? Sounds reasonable to me since there should be a proper tradeoff since most people don't sacrifice that offhand weapon or shield that the warlord warrior drops when doublegripping blinded anyway.
- Double grip lags for 6 pulse??!?!?!?!?! seriously, what is this? Everytime the warrior swaps to two handed, he has to lag close to half a round (6 pulses is like what? 1.2 seconds)??? Come on, you might as well tell me to delete all my warriors now. This is a death sentence.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
9/29/2024, 8:48:14 AM
I don't see how double gripping lagging for 1 second can be a death sentence.. I don't think that opinion is really rooted in reality. Its really not a game-breaking, class ruining change to have 1 second of lag on something. Not even flee (people manage to get away despite hobble lags). As well I could reply encouraging you to consider other strategies or ways to exploit this on other warriors if you believe that is a death sentence. If it really bothers you that much I can set it to 1% for you - or maybe you could consider toggling autogrip to see if that would suit your preferences better? Seriously though, please do some reading and explore the changes, they are not all nerfs and warriors have many weapon choices now.
lionSpyre
Posts: 135
9/29/2024, 11:31:59 AM
These are really cool and creative changes. I'm seeing a lot of classes come into their own, out of spamming abilities and into a more diverse playstyle, love to see that.
I do agree though (as a knee-jerk, albeit thoughout, reaction) that this is nerfing warriors virtually to the point of nonviable. They always had lots of weapon options. Their main strength was always their versatility in maintaining combat style advantage, fourth attack, and coupling hobble with combat skills. 1-round lag on dirted doublegrip isn't a death sentence, but it sure as hell makes it a non-viable option. Just run now I guess when you're dirted, which is way less fun than double-gripping and playing mind games. Barrage and overhead are now nerfed to uselessness in PvP. Hobble has now been nerfed in 90% of cases when you'd use it (immediately on weapon swap). Most of their skills also cost significant amounts of movement (overpower is 40mv per use, berserk consumes half mv?). But with athleticism nerfed, they can't use overpower for every ability anymore. Which sort of nerfs the hard work it takes to master all of those abilities. Looking at this, berserkers just seem way better now. More versatile, better damage output, tankier, more spec options... and importantly, more fun.
I think the warrior meta has officially sailed into the sunset... and perhaps torpedoed immediately upon leaving the harbor and sank to the bottom.
Sorry, just a fun dramatic metaphor. But honestly, I love virtually every other change here. The only other thing I'm cautious about is the dazed effect... I see what y'all are doing by moving away from rapid weapon swaps. But.. where does that leave the rock-paper scissors of melee combat, then? I don't see what the end goal is for these changes. No fighter class or rogue class wants to stay in inferior combat/weapon style if they can help it. So by making it harder to get out of these without penalizing the matchup advantage... I don't see the end goal here. I'm open to whatever that end goal would be, but it's not clear at the moment if it would lead towards a desired outcome.
I do agree though (as a knee-jerk, albeit thoughout, reaction) that this is nerfing warriors virtually to the point of nonviable. They always had lots of weapon options. Their main strength was always their versatility in maintaining combat style advantage, fourth attack, and coupling hobble with combat skills. 1-round lag on dirted doublegrip isn't a death sentence, but it sure as hell makes it a non-viable option. Just run now I guess when you're dirted, which is way less fun than double-gripping and playing mind games. Barrage and overhead are now nerfed to uselessness in PvP. Hobble has now been nerfed in 90% of cases when you'd use it (immediately on weapon swap). Most of their skills also cost significant amounts of movement (overpower is 40mv per use, berserk consumes half mv?). But with athleticism nerfed, they can't use overpower for every ability anymore. Which sort of nerfs the hard work it takes to master all of those abilities. Looking at this, berserkers just seem way better now. More versatile, better damage output, tankier, more spec options... and importantly, more fun.
I think the warrior meta has officially sailed into the sunset... and perhaps torpedoed immediately upon leaving the harbor and sank to the bottom.
Sorry, just a fun dramatic metaphor. But honestly, I love virtually every other change here. The only other thing I'm cautious about is the dazed effect... I see what y'all are doing by moving away from rapid weapon swaps. But.. where does that leave the rock-paper scissors of melee combat, then? I don't see what the end goal is for these changes. No fighter class or rogue class wants to stay in inferior combat/weapon style if they can help it. So by making it harder to get out of these without penalizing the matchup advantage... I don't see the end goal here. I'm open to whatever that end goal would be, but it's not clear at the moment if it would lead towards a desired outcome.
Thorgoth
Posts: 751
9/29/2024, 11:58:02 AM
Overall the list of changes are pretty neat, personally I feel like I'm getting too old to keep up with everything now adays but it's nice to see new flavor being added consistently. Still chewing on these to see how they feel but I was secretly hoping for new race introduced to Shadows.
The one thing I never agreed with is forcing players to take a 10 hp cut for new skill drops. Personally I think if the mechanism of the game is changing around an existent player then you can't expect them to have the wherewithal to keep pracs available for future enhancements. Just my two cents. I do agree for the rule outside of that. Perhaps you could consider giving them the skill at 50% or something.
The one thing I never agreed with is forcing players to take a 10 hp cut for new skill drops. Personally I think if the mechanism of the game is changing around an existent player then you can't expect them to have the wherewithal to keep pracs available for future enhancements. Just my two cents. I do agree for the rule outside of that. Perhaps you could consider giving them the skill at 50% or something.
deioped
Posts: 94
9/29/2024, 5:36:28 PM
...storm giant monk. Not a combo I thought I wanted until now...
Lumubella
Posts: 438
9/29/2024, 6:39:42 PM
Congratulations to Avenar and Dogran and Varliv. Let's hold off on committing seppuku until we see the warrior-berserker matchup. Warriors have been overtuned for a long time and have been able to dominate with always available weapon swaps to advantage followed by a lag skill or a hobble. Also swapping with a lag on berserkers seems like a fair trade-off but lets wait and see on how the "slip" mechanic works.
edit: Didn't mean to overlook you Varliv sorry!
edit: Didn't mean to overlook you Varliv sorry!
Davairus
Posts: 10674
9/29/2024, 8:56:33 PM
So, as the Warlord imm I got to watch tens to hundreds of duels over the last year, from different players, different races and different classes. These decisions actually take many months to decide. ivindel had a Warlord warrior a little bit ago, it was mediocre. m1c0 didn't even play AR for like 18 months and he smashed him to smithereens. He did that with a power-levelled ranger with no idea what he's doing. (The boar chasing is a m1co suggestion btw.) I rememebr looking at the logs and finding triggers running continously in combat that are just spamming "wake" and 'mount boar" pointlessly. You'll say they dont make a difference but apparently 6 pulse on double grips gonna kill you. Maybe take out your spam of wake and mount boar first, game balance is not designed around allowing triggers that are deliberately entering pointless commands.
ronk
Posts: 42
9/30/2024, 6:49:48 PM
RELEASE THE BOARS!
Xenyar
Posts: 690
9/30/2024, 9:02:18 PM
Ugh.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
11/17/2024, 9:58:17 PM
Copying some DKN stuff here which has been floating around.
1) There was a bug with the DK will to mana conversion scaling which was fixed
2) also for some reason the gauge was going around 3 levels instead of just 1, also fixed
3) And another DK skill was added "infamy" which failed to make it onto the patch notes (I'll spoil here - this skill requires a level 3 unholy strength to make active which means mana drain will be horrific). This skill is level 45 where even a human DK would be in level 50 reaches.
4) Siphon strike was moved to 36 as it does not have good "feel" in a level range where you are riding the AC miss wave and access to cheap potions. It feels gratituious. I anticipate that will change when your potions suddenly cost a ton of gold and its competing with strike of pain for opportunity.
1) There was a bug with the DK will to mana conversion scaling which was fixed
2) also for some reason the gauge was going around 3 levels instead of just 1, also fixed
3) And another DK skill was added "infamy" which failed to make it onto the patch notes (I'll spoil here - this skill requires a level 3 unholy strength to make active which means mana drain will be horrific). This skill is level 45 where even a human DK would be in level 50 reaches.
4) Siphon strike was moved to 36 as it does not have good "feel" in a level range where you are riding the AC miss wave and access to cheap potions. It feels gratituious. I anticipate that will change when your potions suddenly cost a ton of gold and its competing with strike of pain for opportunity.
deioped
Posts: 94
11/21/2024, 5:34:38 AM
So Neutral and Lawful DKNs should not prac infamy cos it does nothing for them?
These 2 specs don't get Unholy Strength.
These 2 specs don't get Unholy Strength.
maeve
Posts: 68
11/21/2024, 6:28:58 AM
yea those got blasphemy instead
Rothak
Posts: 295
11/21/2024, 6:31:58 AM
Neutral DKNs have the option of going with a Devil (lawful) or Demon (chaotic).
Davairus
Posts: 10674
11/21/2024, 8:17:43 AM
Its an oversight. Infamy should do something for the casting focused DK. If you have thought of anything cool let me know.
Kornhole
Posts: 399
11/21/2024, 4:05:34 PM
so if my invoker has pass door and mana shield active, and I use mystic tendrils, what happens?
Lumubella
Posts: 438
11/21/2024, 4:15:44 PM
Infamy could be a dk only request where they extort gear from non-good targets with success based on how many pks they've acquired. Something cool and neat, but not game breaking.
Kragn
Posts: 34
11/21/2024, 9:37:57 PM
Yea no. Requesting is humiliating. We play to kill and kill to loot.
Infamy for devil DK needs to fix spellstrike plague to spread again to make Avian racial legacy actually functional after plague changes.
Infamy for devil DK needs to fix spellstrike plague to spread again to make Avian racial legacy actually functional after plague changes.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
11/22/2024, 9:56:33 AM
The infamy skill, if we're not already forgetting, was to give high level DK (45+) a bit more juice, which seems like a no-brainer with the paladins having avenging angel in the same PK range. Obviously needing unholy strength level 3 means it causes heavy mana drain, and that thirst for extra damage might be the chaotic dark-knights undoing as they dump mana and (if we got the numbers right - obviously that is still open for debate) I think over time we are eventually going to get annoyed at DK ganks and might consider nerfing infamy to stop it but there is a way forward that I think could solve this actually, and do something for lawful DK too, that also goes well with their supposed RP of following an evil despot.
Since it is called "infamy" why not scale the buffs with the depth of evil reputations the DK has gotten. So for instance the way to level the Davairus reputation is to stomp on skulls. There are at least six different evil deities and a dark-knight could target level their reputations for whatever the infamy bonus they want. And if there's something they REALLY want (like a buff to 2h damage with unholy str) then they could shortcut that by championing that deity specifically to get the reputation quickly with devotes and the like. But ultimately it is going to take time.
e.g. if they targetted Zylenier (I believe that is a chthulu type illithid deity right?) that could give the lawful DK a stronger compulsion mob, like, haste/frenzy or something
e.g. if they target farmed Davairus (a lawful deity) that would be damage resistance while they have a compulsion active
e.g. if they target farmed Rodyn (another lawful but also plague?) that could cause their compulsion mob to start plagued similar to ossaury
etc (we already have chaotic ones)
So this way its kind of a mix of avenging wrath and paragon, DK will feel adequately spoiled by being able to have multiple affects but also probably a lazy bastard about doing the work for it.
Since it is called "infamy" why not scale the buffs with the depth of evil reputations the DK has gotten. So for instance the way to level the Davairus reputation is to stomp on skulls. There are at least six different evil deities and a dark-knight could target level their reputations for whatever the infamy bonus they want. And if there's something they REALLY want (like a buff to 2h damage with unholy str) then they could shortcut that by championing that deity specifically to get the reputation quickly with devotes and the like. But ultimately it is going to take time.
e.g. if they targetted Zylenier (I believe that is a chthulu type illithid deity right?) that could give the lawful DK a stronger compulsion mob, like, haste/frenzy or something
e.g. if they target farmed Davairus (a lawful deity) that would be damage resistance while they have a compulsion active
e.g. if they target farmed Rodyn (another lawful but also plague?) that could cause their compulsion mob to start plagued similar to ossaury
etc (we already have chaotic ones)
So this way its kind of a mix of avenging wrath and paragon, DK will feel adequately spoiled by being able to have multiple affects but also probably a lazy bastard about doing the work for it.
Kragn
Posts: 34
11/22/2024, 12:09:46 PM
lawful/neutral DK as an epitome of pure blasphemy could serve well to focus more on religion to keep their souls as pure evil as possible and get rewarded for it. That saying, PK should give you reputation also then.
Merlandox
Posts: 302
11/22/2024, 3:21:35 PM
Okay... What am I reading...
Deity Davairus gives DK Sanc, protection against all alignment from bulwark (ie stronger protection) + and now damage resistance?
Deity Zylenier gives the mob frenzy???
And the DK and farm all deities meaning to say if I invest 500 hours into the game I become more OP as the time goes by?
Am I reading this right...?
Deity Davairus gives DK Sanc, protection against all alignment from bulwark (ie stronger protection) + and now damage resistance?
Deity Zylenier gives the mob frenzy???
And the DK and farm all deities meaning to say if I invest 500 hours into the game I become more OP as the time goes by?
Am I reading this right...?
Lumubella
Posts: 438
11/22/2024, 3:51:54 PM
500 hours pffft more like 30.
Xenyar
Posts: 690
11/22/2024, 4:44:53 PM
DK need no buffs. They've been cream of the crop before any buffs in the past 5-7 years. Adding more firepower isn't necessary.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
11/23/2024, 11:22:13 PM
So. Warriors are incredibly powerful in melee with just riposte and concentrate alone, then they shred a load of armor class with hobble, and bash you into the ground with little real thought involved. You can then compare that with a paladin/DK... okay, sure, they've got an offense, but they don't have blind fighting. They dont have the protective shield of mages. They've got offensive spells but they can't use them if you bash them, and if the warrior used minimal saves the bash damage+fourth attack alone is going to outdamage these spells. And without unholy strength/infamy they definitely dont have anything equivalent to a riposte or concentrate skill. Then to top that all off, they have significantly less base HP than warriors as well. So all these posts about paladin OP or dkn OP, it rings hollow for me. Show me any recent log where any paladin or DK easily beats a decent giant or dwarf warrior. And Xenyar I could realy give two shits any of these floyd mayweather 550 ac characters you played previously. Its not possible anymore . Which means dirt kicks on the 2 tick duration of a purple potion are no longer a joke. Whats the point of a cure serious when you're going to be taking 200 damage a round. Also LOL compulsion. People filed bugs about compulsion being broken because you can summon mobs from their area. I'm fucking beside myself. This class used to have charm person and a bashing overseer mechanus came standard. Game balance is harder than "I played this 5 yrs ago and kicked some newbies ass so its fine" . A lot harder than that.
Xenyar
Posts: 690
11/24/2024, 3:32:38 AM
You can still get 500ac on a pally. And DK's not far behind that. That's because you buffed holy/unholy armor. Now you can get close to 180ac from it, which is, give or take, 60-70 more than previously(if I recall correctly).
FYI - paladins get a form of blind fighting that is cast-able and last 3-4 ticks. I don't know how it stacks up to warrior blind fighting. I always thought that wasn't necessary, but whatever.
Most of the time a pally/dk that gets dirt kicked will flee from it instantly anyways. Sure, if I stand there and take a beating it's my fault and I should lose 200hp per round...so yeah I guess you're right?
DK don't need to keep getting buffs. Rangers don't need to keep getting buffs. But they keep getting them for whatever reason. That's my opinion from my experiences with them. You can disagree. I didn't think zerkers should be concentrating while raged...remember I called that out while actively playing a zerker.
If you want some help with feedback on class balance, give me a holler. I may have input on some classes, I may not. If you want to defend your creations because they are your ideas and you can't possibly be wrong, then wait until you get enough pushback from everybody saying hey you turd, pay attention to us, were giving you feedback here don't dismiss us(Remember eradicators, or Ninjas global shadow spear, or ninja ghost walk?) yeah... keep doing that.
I told you like 3 years ago that spiteful strike needed fixed. You ignored it of course because it's me. I'm glad Pip finally spoke up about it in the Changes you Don't Like forum. You'll listen to him more than you will me.
FYI - paladins get a form of blind fighting that is cast-able and last 3-4 ticks. I don't know how it stacks up to warrior blind fighting. I always thought that wasn't necessary, but whatever.
Most of the time a pally/dk that gets dirt kicked will flee from it instantly anyways. Sure, if I stand there and take a beating it's my fault and I should lose 200hp per round...so yeah I guess you're right?
DK don't need to keep getting buffs. Rangers don't need to keep getting buffs. But they keep getting them for whatever reason. That's my opinion from my experiences with them. You can disagree. I didn't think zerkers should be concentrating while raged...remember I called that out while actively playing a zerker.
If you want some help with feedback on class balance, give me a holler. I may have input on some classes, I may not. If you want to defend your creations because they are your ideas and you can't possibly be wrong, then wait until you get enough pushback from everybody saying hey you turd, pay attention to us, were giving you feedback here don't dismiss us(Remember eradicators, or Ninjas global shadow spear, or ninja ghost walk?) yeah... keep doing that.
I told you like 3 years ago that spiteful strike needed fixed. You ignored it of course because it's me. I'm glad Pip finally spoke up about it in the Changes you Don't Like forum. You'll listen to him more than you will me.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
11/24/2024, 6:35:15 AM
It makes no difference to me who is posting what. It could be a newbie for all it matters to me. As long as there is an actual reasoned argument that isn't full of BS.
1. its not true that spiteful strike doesn't lag. It 100% does lag. All you did was read pip's post and take his word as gospel. He's wrong. It lags the same as wild smash lag, which you said previously made that skill useless. This tells me that you have never even used this skill. Just like how you never used wild smash before you deleted over it. We needn't take any DK feedback from pip, because pip hasn't played a single DK of any merit whatsoever. He knows just as well as any DK knows it that the dirt/bash power combo is a bitch for any DK to deal with, and wisely doesn't roll one. Any warrior that isn't ridiculously reckless to the point of running into no-exits or fighting with zero saves is capable of eating a DK's lunch. Hobble vs spiteful strike? No contest there. Concentrate attacks will annihilate the DK while he is fireballing (probably while blind), and riposte will be the cherry on top. Dark-knight will have to find some other way to win this, and doesn't have the base HP necessary to sit in the fight exchanging wimpy attacks hoping for an affect to land.
2. The "hobble" affect you are talking about actually checks save vs aff, which you should already be wearing because of fireball. Heaven forbid, if it actually lands, it doesn't do any of the AC reduction of hobble. It doesn't do the dodge reduction either. It doesn't do anything hobble does. All it can do is the flee stumbles. That is nothing anybody doesn't already deal with immediate switch-hobbles, except it depends on having failed saves and failed to parry. Do you think warrior players would be happy if we made hobble parryable? Added save check? Removed its armor reduction? Removed the stacking dodge penalty? Well frostbite has none of these things. There's no reason really why a warrior would even flee a frostbite. At best it might stop some flee-murders temporarily. It is NOT hobble.
3. It reduces healing by reducing con. Having missing con is what gimps a heal. Only if your opponent is min/maxed will they actually lose some con. Of course, they could instead wear some gear to compensate. There are nice rares out their with extra con on them, and oftentimes they have save vs spell as well, but spells like this (e.g. poison) are only devastating to a min-maxed character. What would be the point of having con reduction reducing the healing if there is nothing in the game that can do the effect? Isn't that your own decision to forego extra con while fighting a character that can reduce con? Similar to fighting a shadow and not bothering to have extra +str to counter nerve? I mean I do not mind if it just reduced strength instead of con , but there's already a dozen different skills and spells like that, but this would be legitimately a huge buff. Some -con for a couple rounds is nothing for a warrior to get their panties in a twist about.
This combination of no saves aff and no con amounts to a reckless playstyle biting a player in the ass. Frankly, its vulnerable and this class has tools to capitalize on vulnerability. That's exactly what I set out to do install into the dark-knight class. Find weaknesses and exploit them. I would take a guess that most DKN's have no idea what they are actually doing and just pwn people who similarly have no idea but min-maxed their gear and it works out well for the DK. But our top pk'er being a DKN is more to do with his luck tricking people to flee into no-exit than any spiteful strike hobbles.
4. You also left out the important fact that spiteful strike costs the dark-knight HP to use it. Yes it can deal more damage on the next hit, but its not free damage. Nor is it even guaranteed damage. It can be parried. It can be saved. And when it is you are out the HP lost with nothing to show for it.
5. And, last but not least, you neglected the spiteful strike costs willpower. This ensures that this is just not spammable. The only way to get that willpower back is through casting spells. It takes time to build it back up. There are a few loopholes to close but that's not really a spiteful strike issue.
1. its not true that spiteful strike doesn't lag. It 100% does lag. All you did was read pip's post and take his word as gospel. He's wrong. It lags the same as wild smash lag, which you said previously made that skill useless. This tells me that you have never even used this skill. Just like how you never used wild smash before you deleted over it. We needn't take any DK feedback from pip, because pip hasn't played a single DK of any merit whatsoever. He knows just as well as any DK knows it that the dirt/bash power combo is a bitch for any DK to deal with, and wisely doesn't roll one. Any warrior that isn't ridiculously reckless to the point of running into no-exits or fighting with zero saves is capable of eating a DK's lunch. Hobble vs spiteful strike? No contest there. Concentrate attacks will annihilate the DK while he is fireballing (probably while blind), and riposte will be the cherry on top. Dark-knight will have to find some other way to win this, and doesn't have the base HP necessary to sit in the fight exchanging wimpy attacks hoping for an affect to land.
2. The "hobble" affect you are talking about actually checks save vs aff, which you should already be wearing because of fireball. Heaven forbid, if it actually lands, it doesn't do any of the AC reduction of hobble. It doesn't do the dodge reduction either. It doesn't do anything hobble does. All it can do is the flee stumbles. That is nothing anybody doesn't already deal with immediate switch-hobbles, except it depends on having failed saves and failed to parry. Do you think warrior players would be happy if we made hobble parryable? Added save check? Removed its armor reduction? Removed the stacking dodge penalty? Well frostbite has none of these things. There's no reason really why a warrior would even flee a frostbite. At best it might stop some flee-murders temporarily. It is NOT hobble.
3. It reduces healing by reducing con. Having missing con is what gimps a heal. Only if your opponent is min/maxed will they actually lose some con. Of course, they could instead wear some gear to compensate. There are nice rares out their with extra con on them, and oftentimes they have save vs spell as well, but spells like this (e.g. poison) are only devastating to a min-maxed character. What would be the point of having con reduction reducing the healing if there is nothing in the game that can do the effect? Isn't that your own decision to forego extra con while fighting a character that can reduce con? Similar to fighting a shadow and not bothering to have extra +str to counter nerve? I mean I do not mind if it just reduced strength instead of con , but there's already a dozen different skills and spells like that, but this would be legitimately a huge buff. Some -con for a couple rounds is nothing for a warrior to get their panties in a twist about.
This combination of no saves aff and no con amounts to a reckless playstyle biting a player in the ass. Frankly, its vulnerable and this class has tools to capitalize on vulnerability. That's exactly what I set out to do install into the dark-knight class. Find weaknesses and exploit them. I would take a guess that most DKN's have no idea what they are actually doing and just pwn people who similarly have no idea but min-maxed their gear and it works out well for the DK. But our top pk'er being a DKN is more to do with his luck tricking people to flee into no-exit than any spiteful strike hobbles.
4. You also left out the important fact that spiteful strike costs the dark-knight HP to use it. Yes it can deal more damage on the next hit, but its not free damage. Nor is it even guaranteed damage. It can be parried. It can be saved. And when it is you are out the HP lost with nothing to show for it.
5. And, last but not least, you neglected the spiteful strike costs willpower. This ensures that this is just not spammable. The only way to get that willpower back is through casting spells. It takes time to build it back up. There are a few loopholes to close but that's not really a spiteful strike issue.
Merlandox
Posts: 302
11/24/2024, 6:38:53 AM
To clarify, my post isn't saying unholy str is OP. I'm talking about giving even more buffs to DK. That suggests that you think DKs are weak?
Davairus
Posts: 10674
11/24/2024, 6:50:10 AM
At high level I think DK falls behind a bit, starting from when a warrior gets riposte. The amount of damage two-handed riposte does is very heavy. Then just the fact they dont have the dual parry of warriors and rangers, dont have the avenging angel or paragon of paladin, dont have any blind fighting or dirt kick, and their compulsion mobs dont really get any better than triton watchman, and with the abundance of saves to reduce fireball damage, I think infamy just fills a gap. What I would like to do at this point in time is change the mana regen to scale off max bulwark shield (which depends on your missing hp) instead of scaling off max mana. That may promote a riskier playstyle. I would also like to have unholy strength cost hp the same way that spiteful strike costs hp. I was feeling unsure about that one, but the more I hear complaining about DK's self-healing abilities, the safer that feels. I dont consider it a weak class but I would like to have something for the caster DK to benefit from. Remembering of course that the caster DK is probably going to be a Justice, where the pain points are movement cost mostly, and not so much about having jacked firebals and poisons. I think a player picking that probably is going to prefer defensive benefits.
You know what one more point I'll make about DK and then I'm done. This was a huge patch with a couple last min additions that are reasonable players suggestions. What do you think is the impression the overall playerbase gets when the "top player"'s reaction to berserker changes is to immediately delete? Are they going to roll a berserker after that? Even though the explanation given was make-believe BS, the damage is already done. Straight up threw berserkers under a bus. Nobody will have any confidence with them. And what is the likely outcome when the "top player" starts shitting on another class trying to get it nerfed. Are they going to want to roll a class they think will get rug pulled? Yeah I think not. Similarly, all this bullshit about rangers being OP now is just a callous way to shit on Afales's record or Rathek's success who are both working hard for their success. Your ranger had no success Xenyar. So how about just knock that shit off. I'm not taking dark-knight nerfs suggestion from anyone who is playing a paladin or healer. I'm not taking paladin nerf suggestions too seriously from the DK player either. Thats called a CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
I also know I put months of hard work into both classes, based on the evidence I saw on logboard and what players advised is needed. It isnt true that I dont listen to anybody. I'll be waiting to see some more logs and spirited debate on the logboard. Enjoy whatever it is that you think is OP while it lasts. If you think its meta, PROVE it. I'm fine with being proven wrong, but you have not shown me any killer instinct with DK's yet.
You know what one more point I'll make about DK and then I'm done. This was a huge patch with a couple last min additions that are reasonable players suggestions. What do you think is the impression the overall playerbase gets when the "top player"'s reaction to berserker changes is to immediately delete? Are they going to roll a berserker after that? Even though the explanation given was make-believe BS, the damage is already done. Straight up threw berserkers under a bus. Nobody will have any confidence with them. And what is the likely outcome when the "top player" starts shitting on another class trying to get it nerfed. Are they going to want to roll a class they think will get rug pulled? Yeah I think not. Similarly, all this bullshit about rangers being OP now is just a callous way to shit on Afales's record or Rathek's success who are both working hard for their success. Your ranger had no success Xenyar. So how about just knock that shit off. I'm not taking dark-knight nerfs suggestion from anyone who is playing a paladin or healer. I'm not taking paladin nerf suggestions too seriously from the DK player either. Thats called a CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
I also know I put months of hard work into both classes, based on the evidence I saw on logboard and what players advised is needed. It isnt true that I dont listen to anybody. I'll be waiting to see some more logs and spirited debate on the logboard. Enjoy whatever it is that you think is OP while it lasts. If you think its meta, PROVE it. I'm fine with being proven wrong, but you have not shown me any killer instinct with DK's yet.
Kragn
Posts: 34
11/24/2024, 9:00:45 AM
People forget that DKs had only nerfs for the past decade. Losing a lot of what made them strong before.
They worked great vs newbies whom you could gank or if you'd play extremely conservative hiding behind Triton, but vs anyone with a clue they were garbage compared to rangers, warriors, serkers. Now they are on par with the top dogs, yet still easily beatable.
They worked great vs newbies whom you could gank or if you'd play extremely conservative hiding behind Triton, but vs anyone with a clue they were garbage compared to rangers, warriors, serkers. Now they are on par with the top dogs, yet still easily beatable.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
11/24/2024, 9:15:39 AM
https://abandonedrealms.com/logs/view_log.php?id=1696
yeah nice example huh
yeah nice example huh
BlackWidow
Posts: 616
11/24/2024, 5:17:24 PM
Let me put it this way: the warrior guild saw some heavy changes this patch which could be seen as nerfs if not shafting the class in general. Meanwhile, you seem to be buffing the DK class to meet the level it was at *before* those changes?
As a mathematician, I can say: having two variables and shifting both at the same time messes with whatever calculations you're trying to make. If you want proper balance on a scale, you don't just adjust weights on both sides at the same time (unless they're equal), you focus on one side at a time rather than swinging back and forth like a seesaw.
Furthermore, from what I've seen there is no lag whatsoever involved with the hobble effect given to spiteful strike. Warriors now have to wait until they've fully armed the weapon to get the proper effect, whereas a DK from what I've seen can just swap and immediately use the strike to cause hobble (which then prevents a variety of skills).
I feel like the impact of spiteful strike is being ignored because some people said it's stronger than it used to be. Well it's not just that, it has a ridiculous number of effects rolled into one thing as pip mentioned. Free mana (possibly at the cost of some movement), no lag, can be followed up with a spell, and so forth...? Seems over the top to me.
As a mathematician, I can say: having two variables and shifting both at the same time messes with whatever calculations you're trying to make. If you want proper balance on a scale, you don't just adjust weights on both sides at the same time (unless they're equal), you focus on one side at a time rather than swinging back and forth like a seesaw.
Furthermore, from what I've seen there is no lag whatsoever involved with the hobble effect given to spiteful strike. Warriors now have to wait until they've fully armed the weapon to get the proper effect, whereas a DK from what I've seen can just swap and immediately use the strike to cause hobble (which then prevents a variety of skills).
I feel like the impact of spiteful strike is being ignored because some people said it's stronger than it used to be. Well it's not just that, it has a ridiculous number of effects rolled into one thing as pip mentioned. Free mana (possibly at the cost of some movement), no lag, can be followed up with a spell, and so forth...? Seems over the top to me.
Kragn
Posts: 34
11/24/2024, 5:39:33 PM
How are you still rambling about "no lag" if someone with 150 hours of using it clearly explains how pip had the wrong idea?
Spiteful strike mechanics has not changed since you played Militha.
There is no "hobble effect". The only change to it was due to universal DK mechanic of skills now requiring willpower to use and depleting willpower restoring a % of mana.
Spiteful strike mechanics has not changed since you played Militha.
There is no "hobble effect". The only change to it was due to universal DK mechanic of skills now requiring willpower to use and depleting willpower restoring a % of mana.
Lumubella
Posts: 438
11/24/2024, 7:34:20 PM
A skill with a windup on a casting class is what seems overpowered to me. You don't see a warrior winding up on overhead smash then hitting you with a dirt kick during the windup. DK can windup spiteful and blind or fireball you during the windup. Maybe doing something during the windup should interrupt the skill.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
11/24/2024, 8:44:16 PM
"Windup" isn't how the spiteful strike mechanic works. Spiteful strike increases the damage of the next melee hit. The dark-knight can cast fireball as soon as the skill lag is over, which means it could occur before melee. However, if that happens, it means the DK's opponent will have had the maximum possible window to escape.
The strike itself is entirely avoidable by fleeing before it connects, as its effect lasts only one round. Bundling cold damage into next attack makes that melee attack look more formidable since we combined the damage. However, the strike by itself is relatively low damage. To justify increased lag, the strike would need a significant damage boost.
The strike itself is entirely avoidable by fleeing before it connects, as its effect lasts only one round. Bundling cold damage into next attack makes that melee attack look more formidable since we combined the damage. However, the strike by itself is relatively low damage. To justify increased lag, the strike would need a significant damage boost.
Kragn
Posts: 34
11/24/2024, 8:51:28 PM
Spiteful is insanely telepgraphed, so it's easy to avoid it each time. Hobble is not. Bash is not. Figure it out.
Kornhole
Posts: 399
12/4/2024, 3:15:33 PM
This was an attempt at a legitimate inquiry.
** zapping mana shield with mystic tendrils to cause a slow affect.
** zapping pass door with mystic tendrils will cause a haste affect.
What happens if I tendril with both mana shield and pass door active?
** zapping mana shield with mystic tendrils to cause a slow affect.
** zapping pass door with mystic tendrils will cause a haste affect.
What happens if I tendril with both mana shield and pass door active?
valindra
Posts: 17
12/4/2024, 4:54:42 PM
@Kornhole trivially in my experience, the tendrils will pop pass door first, but I don't have enough data to say definitively every time.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
12/5/2024, 11:31:09 AM
I know you all wanted some DK revisions, this is what I did after a much more thorough vetting than we did over the patch on this class.
---
This will come as no surprise.
I have updated the new willpower/mana regen stuff to require the bind weapon wielded, which I will remind you also, is no longer a noremove. I also amended the regen to require using abilities that deal DAMAGE (both ways) , and added a bind weapon skill check. This way only a DK who is good at pk'ing is going to be able to get the bind weapon charged up with souls, and it should take some work on grinding the skill up to be optimal for use. it should feel more they've earned it instead of being cheap this way.
I retained willpower gain on successful mals because landing those is rare and that seems like a genuine confidence booster for the DK. I know I'm breaking my own rule there but rule of cool.
I added level scaling so it isnt run around and pop lowbie mobs for full mana in seconds at 50.
-> Please contact me or send me a note if you need a bind weapon reset, as the bind weapon updates have probably left some legacy DK's stuck with cursed crap.
-> If your weapon seems not working please try saccing and beckoning it before you write in.
---
I also fixed the avian DK racial legacy, pestilence. It was not working. It is now. I made it also strip the plague if the DK cancels the pestilence aura, and blocked accidental self-pwns of casting plague on ones self with no pestilence.
---
The below are NOT changes...
So we are not under any illusions about DK's these are the things on my radar that I am monitoring and interested in. I am not feeling it is "OP" class, but these are the things that have me wondering about.
i) the fell spark combination damage of vamp damage/healing + black lightning seems likely to be amiss to me
ii) the melee hits (which are very frequent) cause gain of abyssal bulwark shield, its basically always active. 25% damage reduction against every class, it really is very nice. However, the damage looks the same visually, and that confuses the player into thinking they are getting an ass kicking when its really a lot different. I believe that causes the player to misjudge the power of the class.
iii) generally speaking I have concern that this class is presenting the best mals, the best mentals (especially the avian DK with its hysteria/lightning bolt), the best afflictives, the best melee, the best healing, and a high amror class. You guys will recall bards and monks were soloing evermore because of power creep. So keeping an open mind and listening to feedback about this, but we definitely do have some real downsides in place for them.
iv) spiteful strike - I wanted it to apply damage to next melee hit but I noticed that if the attack gets parried it can still proc in the same round. So that's more often than I intended and I figure maybe its cool that way, still only good for one hit per round, but I think we should keep an eye on that. I curently am leaning to keeping it this way because it makes it into a bruteforce skill. but that was originally an accident.
---
This will come as no surprise.
I have updated the new willpower/mana regen stuff to require the bind weapon wielded, which I will remind you also, is no longer a noremove. I also amended the regen to require using abilities that deal DAMAGE (both ways) , and added a bind weapon skill check. This way only a DK who is good at pk'ing is going to be able to get the bind weapon charged up with souls, and it should take some work on grinding the skill up to be optimal for use. it should feel more they've earned it instead of being cheap this way.
I retained willpower gain on successful mals because landing those is rare and that seems like a genuine confidence booster for the DK. I know I'm breaking my own rule there but rule of cool.
I added level scaling so it isnt run around and pop lowbie mobs for full mana in seconds at 50.
-> Please contact me or send me a note if you need a bind weapon reset, as the bind weapon updates have probably left some legacy DK's stuck with cursed crap.
-> If your weapon seems not working please try saccing and beckoning it before you write in.
---
I also fixed the avian DK racial legacy, pestilence. It was not working. It is now. I made it also strip the plague if the DK cancels the pestilence aura, and blocked accidental self-pwns of casting plague on ones self with no pestilence.
---
The below are NOT changes...
So we are not under any illusions about DK's these are the things on my radar that I am monitoring and interested in. I am not feeling it is "OP" class, but these are the things that have me wondering about.
i) the fell spark combination damage of vamp damage/healing + black lightning seems likely to be amiss to me
ii) the melee hits (which are very frequent) cause gain of abyssal bulwark shield, its basically always active. 25% damage reduction against every class, it really is very nice. However, the damage looks the same visually, and that confuses the player into thinking they are getting an ass kicking when its really a lot different. I believe that causes the player to misjudge the power of the class.
iii) generally speaking I have concern that this class is presenting the best mals, the best mentals (especially the avian DK with its hysteria/lightning bolt), the best afflictives, the best melee, the best healing, and a high amror class. You guys will recall bards and monks were soloing evermore because of power creep. So keeping an open mind and listening to feedback about this, but we definitely do have some real downsides in place for them.
iv) spiteful strike - I wanted it to apply damage to next melee hit but I noticed that if the attack gets parried it can still proc in the same round. So that's more often than I intended and I figure maybe its cool that way, still only good for one hit per round, but I think we should keep an eye on that. I curently am leaning to keeping it this way because it makes it into a bruteforce skill. but that was originally an accident.
Kragn
Posts: 34
12/5/2024, 3:05:49 PM
Hope you are happy with another dead class. Nobody will play this garbage nor do good with it. It's back to Paladin circle-jerk.
I can't even retrieve my cabal item using max rank bind weapon without going out of mana several times, getting drained.
Half of the things are not working, other half makes no sense.
For all the people who whined enough to ruin another class, don't fret, I will play much lamer classes that will give 0 fights, but gank more efficiently.
I can't even retrieve my cabal item using max rank bind weapon without going out of mana several times, getting drained.
Half of the things are not working, other half makes no sense.
For all the people who whined enough to ruin another class, don't fret, I will play much lamer classes that will give 0 fights, but gank more efficiently.
Lumubella
Posts: 438
12/5/2024, 4:09:05 PM
Unholy strength was not designed to have 100% uptime. It was designed to be used selectively. Being able to maintain it as well as heal just as much as a Paladin was too much for a DK. I would suggest if the skills require style advantage we can find a way to make bind weapon adjust for that.
Kragn
Posts: 34
12/5/2024, 4:27:37 PM
DK was briefly the only class who could sometimes win damage race vs Paladins. That required unholy strength uptime. Without that, its not even close.
Now there is exactly 0 evil classes who can beat paladins, except for pixie illusionist if paladin is slacking on saves.
And you wonder why more and more people lose interest...
DK in pve combat should not get depleted with RANK 1 unholy strength, when RANK 3 is required to even benefit from your things. Not that it matters because what was the point of giving combat advantage benefits if you are forced to wielding only one weapon?
As I said, changes that are not thought out nor tested, that only create more dead classes are exactly why you get unbalanced game, people losing interest and quitting out.
If DK was truly that OP and game breaking that it warranted absolute destruction, then you would have had more than 2 active DKs and more than 1 DK on top 10 of PK ratings instead of all the classes who have been dominating for years now anyway. Instead, those who rolled DK thinking its op gave up on their chars after getting owned in PK, realizing that killing nymphs and feeling strong does not equate to dominating in PK later on.
I honestly do not want to waste any more time trying to reason with people who deliberately want this game to die w/o even realizing it themselves.
Now there is exactly 0 evil classes who can beat paladins, except for pixie illusionist if paladin is slacking on saves.
And you wonder why more and more people lose interest...
DK in pve combat should not get depleted with RANK 1 unholy strength, when RANK 3 is required to even benefit from your things. Not that it matters because what was the point of giving combat advantage benefits if you are forced to wielding only one weapon?
As I said, changes that are not thought out nor tested, that only create more dead classes are exactly why you get unbalanced game, people losing interest and quitting out.
If DK was truly that OP and game breaking that it warranted absolute destruction, then you would have had more than 2 active DKs and more than 1 DK on top 10 of PK ratings instead of all the classes who have been dominating for years now anyway. Instead, those who rolled DK thinking its op gave up on their chars after getting owned in PK, realizing that killing nymphs and feeling strong does not equate to dominating in PK later on.
I honestly do not want to waste any more time trying to reason with people who deliberately want this game to die w/o even realizing it themselves.
Stiehl26
Posts: 743
12/5/2024, 5:11:40 PM
There's always warrior ;).
Xenyar
Posts: 690
12/5/2024, 5:35:19 PM
I've been part of the knee-jerk reactions for DKs recently. So before I got ahead of myself again, I wanted to really think about it all before saying anything.
I agree 25% protection reduction against all needs looked at.
Spiteful strike, while it is nothing but positive ls with no real drawbacks, isn't the primary issue.
Siphon strike... Previously, unholy strength had only 1 tier, had a meh mana drain, and could be balanced out by attacking mobs to get a slight mana regen from damage dealt.. those kind of balanced each other out. Thiis also worked well with fell spark since that also requires combat.
Then the 4 tier unholy strength system was implemented. The higher the tier, the bigger the mana drain is, which can get pretty steep. Siphon strike was introduced to give DKs something that regains mana to help balance out those tier 3 and 4 Unholy strength drains, as well as giving very stout healing. Siphon is 2 round lag, but the healing from it averages out to better than cure serious returns per round. Back to the mana regen and what's was making it powerful.. if you just stay in tier 1 of unholy strength and siphon creatuees during skirmishes and grab ticka, you can regen your mana super quickly and efficiently...as well as get great healing. Point I'm getting to is, if unholy strength has tiers, then mana regen from siphon strike should also have tiers. The further tier you go with Unholy S., siphon strike automatically matches that tier with the appropriate mana regen. We'd essentially be making those skills/spells proportionate of each other based on the unholy strength tier.
Requiring binded weapon isn't the direction it needs to take imo. I'd try giving siphon strike tiers first.
I agree 25% protection reduction against all needs looked at.
Spiteful strike, while it is nothing but positive ls with no real drawbacks, isn't the primary issue.
Siphon strike... Previously, unholy strength had only 1 tier, had a meh mana drain, and could be balanced out by attacking mobs to get a slight mana regen from damage dealt.. those kind of balanced each other out. Thiis also worked well with fell spark since that also requires combat.
Then the 4 tier unholy strength system was implemented. The higher the tier, the bigger the mana drain is, which can get pretty steep. Siphon strike was introduced to give DKs something that regains mana to help balance out those tier 3 and 4 Unholy strength drains, as well as giving very stout healing. Siphon is 2 round lag, but the healing from it averages out to better than cure serious returns per round. Back to the mana regen and what's was making it powerful.. if you just stay in tier 1 of unholy strength and siphon creatuees during skirmishes and grab ticka, you can regen your mana super quickly and efficiently...as well as get great healing. Point I'm getting to is, if unholy strength has tiers, then mana regen from siphon strike should also have tiers. The further tier you go with Unholy S., siphon strike automatically matches that tier with the appropriate mana regen. We'd essentially be making those skills/spells proportionate of each other based on the unholy strength tier.
Requiring binded weapon isn't the direction it needs to take imo. I'd try giving siphon strike tiers first.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
12/5/2024, 7:48:44 PM
Well first I would like to get this patch properly buttoned up before the holidays, and I don't want to be still going back and forth about DK's over the xmas break.
The class has a 25% damage reduction vs ALL classses (bulwark) and against paladins they're also going through paladin protection so they are extremely OP vs paladins on strength of that one thing alone. There is nothing anyone is going to be able to rationalize to argue DK's are any worse than paladins, and especially vs paladins. There are more dark-knights than paladins and there are more dark-knights than paladins at level 50. Don't make up BS numbers - I will just shut it down and return fire. Lets not forget there was a whole bitching about Hotun thread (one of the few paladins active at level 50) saying he was cheating with tracking scripts. Complete malarkey. Don't waste your time and mine.
Now as for DK.
---
I really like the willpower/mana gain being on the bind weapon as its natural state, however, since unholy strength DOES drain mana and requires combat styles, we COULD make an exception for unholy strength and allow the effect with that. I will point out unholy strength is only for the brawler DK.
Siphon strikes are actually primarily a heal based on base hp (10%), the mana gain was purely a side-effect. I did not give them a "mana regain" ability per se. Caster dark-knights spec does not even have unholy strength and both specs already have fell spark to also heal in combat with. This seems pointless to change if we do what I wrote already, but making this ability more special for caster DK (i.e. better sustain if caster, better damage if brawler), seems a logical direction. With an infamy tie in of some sort. I will think about that and steal the idea in some form for caster dk.
Wanted to add that the "ave dam" scaling on bind weapon belongs on that short list of things I want to monitor. Whatever we did wrong to make it a weapon the DK doesnt want to use needs rectifying.
The class has a 25% damage reduction vs ALL classses (bulwark) and against paladins they're also going through paladin protection so they are extremely OP vs paladins on strength of that one thing alone. There is nothing anyone is going to be able to rationalize to argue DK's are any worse than paladins, and especially vs paladins. There are more dark-knights than paladins and there are more dark-knights than paladins at level 50. Don't make up BS numbers - I will just shut it down and return fire. Lets not forget there was a whole bitching about Hotun thread (one of the few paladins active at level 50) saying he was cheating with tracking scripts. Complete malarkey. Don't waste your time and mine.
Now as for DK.
---
I really like the willpower/mana gain being on the bind weapon as its natural state, however, since unholy strength DOES drain mana and requires combat styles, we COULD make an exception for unholy strength and allow the effect with that. I will point out unholy strength is only for the brawler DK.
Siphon strikes are actually primarily a heal based on base hp (10%), the mana gain was purely a side-effect. I did not give them a "mana regain" ability per se. Caster dark-knights spec does not even have unholy strength and both specs already have fell spark to also heal in combat with. This seems pointless to change if we do what I wrote already, but making this ability more special for caster DK (i.e. better sustain if caster, better damage if brawler), seems a logical direction. With an infamy tie in of some sort. I will think about that and steal the idea in some form for caster dk.
Wanted to add that the "ave dam" scaling on bind weapon belongs on that short list of things I want to monitor. Whatever we did wrong to make it a weapon the DK doesnt want to use needs rectifying.
Kragn
Posts: 34
12/5/2024, 8:16:27 PM
Just because we had an influx of now inactive DKs inflating the player list does not mean there's "more dks than palas" the WHO list on average and activity hours on average has been saying a completely different thing.
If you are saying that Paladin has not been by far the most popular class for a while now then that's simply not true. 90% of my fights have been vs Paladins.
Regarding "DK is OP vs paladin", well, I am fully min/maxed, 1 prac trained Jotun DK in best gear in game and you can ask Raodan and Hrolungr how our skirmishes went. Both beat me several times and I beat them several times, it was finally even, you finally had ONE CLASS in the whole game that can beat Paladin as evil (and only thanks to unholy strength) but that's too much, because somehow we've come to the conclusion that Paladins should not be beaten unless it's stun deaths with neutral Warlords.
I don't WANT BUFFS to DK. What is important is the GAMEPLAY. It was smooth, fluid and enjoyable. Numbers coulda always been tuned, once Kragn fought something else ever in his life besides Paladins and 1 halfling monk. Durgan kicked my ass, sadly he is not inactive. Fawneria beats Kragn. If you are balancing whole class based on how good he does vs Halfling Warlord Monk then something is wrong here.
I can not agree with forcing you to use bind weapon just so you can use your skills/get some mana back. It removes the dimension that DKs just got added by starting to benefit from combat styles with Unholy Strength Rank 3 when target is Frostbitten by Spiteful.
It's literally "back to the drawing board" after the class finally felt smooth and enjoyable to play. (and again, im not talking about numbers because those can always be adjusted)
You made a unique class that requires player to be active and vigilant, monitoring his resources and always thinking one step ahead of how to upkeep his resources optimally so he will not run out of them mid-fight.
DK can not solo Winter, it's just not built for that. But it had nice dynamic gameplay. Something new, refreshing. If we go back to cucked warrior that now has to club around with only 1 weapon and goes out of mana as soon as he tries a spell, then that's not fun gameplay for anyone and the class is dead. Again.
If you are saying that Paladin has not been by far the most popular class for a while now then that's simply not true. 90% of my fights have been vs Paladins.
Regarding "DK is OP vs paladin", well, I am fully min/maxed, 1 prac trained Jotun DK in best gear in game and you can ask Raodan and Hrolungr how our skirmishes went. Both beat me several times and I beat them several times, it was finally even, you finally had ONE CLASS in the whole game that can beat Paladin as evil (and only thanks to unholy strength) but that's too much, because somehow we've come to the conclusion that Paladins should not be beaten unless it's stun deaths with neutral Warlords.
I don't WANT BUFFS to DK. What is important is the GAMEPLAY. It was smooth, fluid and enjoyable. Numbers coulda always been tuned, once Kragn fought something else ever in his life besides Paladins and 1 halfling monk. Durgan kicked my ass, sadly he is not inactive. Fawneria beats Kragn. If you are balancing whole class based on how good he does vs Halfling Warlord Monk then something is wrong here.
I can not agree with forcing you to use bind weapon just so you can use your skills/get some mana back. It removes the dimension that DKs just got added by starting to benefit from combat styles with Unholy Strength Rank 3 when target is Frostbitten by Spiteful.
It's literally "back to the drawing board" after the class finally felt smooth and enjoyable to play. (and again, im not talking about numbers because those can always be adjusted)
You made a unique class that requires player to be active and vigilant, monitoring his resources and always thinking one step ahead of how to upkeep his resources optimally so he will not run out of them mid-fight.
DK can not solo Winter, it's just not built for that. But it had nice dynamic gameplay. Something new, refreshing. If we go back to cucked warrior that now has to club around with only 1 weapon and goes out of mana as soon as he tries a spell, then that's not fun gameplay for anyone and the class is dead. Again.
Davairus
Posts: 10674
12/5/2024, 11:37:36 PM
I honestly cant read that but I like the unholy str tie-in on reflection, i think we can incorporate that since it is draining mana, but dont get the wrong idea I am not doing anything because of any whining anyone is doing. We did not get here that easily as somebody just cried into logboard and I pulled something unique out of my ass, kragn