(Denied) Vyvax the Ruler of the Dead

Wait what? I’ve been pking everyone in my range since I hit 50. Look at my sack of souls. The only person I haven’t killed is Brandolin because he’s a new player. It’s not like I pulled a character out of the woodworks or inactive state just to settle a score, I’ve been active (hence why your passed me over for Warmaster). This feels misdirected.

FYI - the RP for this character was to collect 100 souls so that I could harness enough dark energy and power to ascend to the heavens and usurp Dogran and take back Legion.

I also wanted to cleanse people of their armor to put it back into the realms as a way to “sanitize” their creations since Vyvax viewed armor and material things as an abomination to peoples original form.

I logged in last night and Korvak, Karthik, Finrin and maybe one other person were all on. Everyone quit out except Korvak. It wasn’t unknown that I had a reputation as a mass pker based on what other characters told me in game and when I saw he wasn’t leaving (I looked for him for a good 20 minutes), I saw he procured trident of massacre and went to Underworld to attack. How is that not ok?

Based on the information that was shared so far, I am actually in support of thorgoth. Vyvax does have a legit in game reason to pk anyone in range, warlord or not. Just because there was "bad blood" between thrumdor and korvak, one can't just assume that the same player used Vyvax to kill Korvak because of this "bad blood".

Yeah, maybe the imms can see something we can’t? Because as far as I can tell, this was completely in character for Vyvax to attack anyone in range. There’s a reason he was on his second month in a row as the top PKer. He was indiscriminate in how and who he attacked and was aggressive on the PK scene.

Vyvax was going to try and kill Korvak, whether Thrumdor ever existed or not, or if he got shafted on the promotion or not.
Also, on Thrumdor's GY, he wishes the guy best of luck a few times, and reiterated he has no bad blood with him. Why should he? Korvak didn't promote himself.

And you get shafted on your alt too, pip....ouch.

Appreciate the support guys. And yes, I was already planning to go after Korvak before Thrumdor deleted but he was never on when I logged in, this was the first time he was around so I jumped on the opportunity.

Definitely feels like the IMMs made assumptions and were just looking for a reason. Internal decision was made without even giving me an opportunity in game to defend myself. Based on the timestamp the deny happened within 10-20 minutes of me quitting out after killing Korvak so it must have been made in realtime or really quick. But hey, being cancelled and censored is just a sign of the times. It does set a pretty dangerous precedent for the rest of the players though - in 25+ years of playing I’ve never seen the rule used in this way.

I think I can give some perspective. I was just exploring the underworld, didn't think about the stupid global acquisition thing... didn't want the damn trident.
Vyvax shows up and I die, warrior necro matchup wasn't great and I panicked on top of it. You proceed to sac as much as you could. 5-6 piece of forged armor. I didn't cry about it, I didn't rage out. I did ask why, if about souls then why destroy everything. You said "yes".
Next think I know you are back, I haven't even moved from where my corpse was and you kill me again. Destroy everything else. Including 3 more piece of forged. That felt personal.
You sacced a wicker basket that was full of bread. Needed to return that to the gods?

I was tracking how many hours Vyvax was logging in February just out of curiosity since I saw him online so much, and when I calculated it out about halfway through the month he was online for an average of just over three hours a day. I'm sorry, but I don't think somebody who does this is Warmaster material.

I’ve done the same to everyone I killed, it’s just a matter of how fast they can get back to their corpse. Historically they just log out after the first death. You stuck around and unghosted and that challenged Vyvax, telling him you weren’t afraid. Everything feeds into his RP as being an unflinching evil Rakh king and servant of Zylenier.

I unghosted due to time. So your RP is everyone has to leave if you are around? What fun is that? Just some sort of powertrip? This is a multiplayer game that you feel should be yours alone?

Also, how long to collect 50 ore then forge something good? 2 hours on average? I figure your RP means I get to spend 10-15 hours collecting ore.
Does that make this game a better place?

The Multi-kill and full loot doesnt look good, but still doesnt prove intent like Tayyah said.. Killing opponent again after they unghost is just a prick move, especially since you know they are missing a bunch of eq.
I do think the multi-kill rule sould be looked at, or enforced more. I believe there is very few scenarios its would be ok. Like group warfare.

@BW.. playing an alt shouldn't put you on the no-warmatser list, especially if that warlord is getting 30-40 hours a month. I do underatand if the imm expects his warmaster to be that players main character and not a secondary.

Yes, he's a Rakh Necromancer who is an Adept of Zylenier seeking to ascend into heavens to usurp Dogran - if that doesn't scream powertrip I don't know what else does. Also - see Dav's latest comments about necromancers being evil, corrupted power hungry CEOs who are ruthless and selfish doing anything to elevate themselves. Everything is within the scope of RP here.

A bit more background, this is OOC but most of this thread is so fuck it. Due to an injury I have a lot of free time on my hands and have invested it here. Been having a good time, helping others and learning more all the time.
Since this happened I have spent 4.5 hours in the mines, efficiently gathering gold and silver. Have 1.5 stacks of each now. In another hour I can start collecting iouns. I figure one out of the hour armors will be perfect. Then spend another hour to try again. Rinse repeat.
That is saying nothing of the other equipment/gambled items. I am doing this because I like this game and the people here, I enjoy being nice and friendly, helping others to learn more or gain ranks.
Yet you silently full loot, in the name of RP. Knowing all this, knowing the time investment. For what? I was no threat to you, obviously. You got your soul. Take some equipment, the weapons and destroy it in the name of your RP, fine. But the multikill full loot that is OOC disrespect.

Precisely my point, Xenyar. If someone wants to be Watmaster, they should make their Warlord their primary character. And I think everyone gets the point behind what I said about hours spent.

Korvak - it sounds like your issue should be directed with IMMs and gameplay. The game has always been full loot, multi kill. I’ve died countless times and gotten full looted and lost eq that I spent lots of time getting. I’ve had thieves blackjack me (looking at Phostan) and steal and sac a bunch of rares that took me lots of time to get. It’s just apart of the game. Some chars I go savage, some I’m a little more hello kitty but you can’t expect me to “be the nice considerate guy” all the time because we all know the second I get pk’d people are taking as much gear as they can from me.

If this was a Knight v Legion thing, or a previous IC grudge then great, I don't think this conversation would be happening. If others are silent PK multikilling and full looting your chars I think that is a problem too. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. There is a time and a place for everything as I am sure you know, I am just surprised you felt justified, and based on your comments thus far still do.

It’s a PvP game man. Just assume anyone in your pk range is an enemy, especially when they are running around as Dragon with full criminal status. I planned to do the same to Ailred, to Tynidas, to Vogara, to Foggledonk. I bought contracts on two of those people. I am an equal opportunity pker when playing an evil necromancer.

Ya I am done talking to you. Glad you feel justified.

You planning on multikilling, full looting? If not I don't think its a problem. You seemed to have glossed over the real issue here, its not a death. It wasn't even the silent PK. I believe the issue here was the multikill full loot in the name of RP.

This was a big picture issue where the multi-kill full loot were just a part of it, and not the entire reason.

Tayyah, as a general rule as long as what your alt is doing isn't a conflict of interest for your main, there is no problem.

Your guys logic is flawed here. What are the rules for this? What is the allowed time period between deleting a character and being allowed to PK on another? You guys are grasping for straws here.

Though we allow multikilling, it
is only permissible to a reasonable extent, and considered bad etiquette to
kill someone making attempts to re-equip. If you are found multikilling
excessively, you will be told to stop. Continued killing will lead to more
drastic punishments. Note that after the 40th level a player is expected to
be able to avoid being multikilled and the blame for his death is more
likely to be attributed to himself.

Right out of help multi kill. Level 50 cabal char. The multi kill has no relevance to the topic. This was a multicharacter offense which is completely different

Yep, this wasn't just about the multi-kill, this was about the obvious OOC optics and stack of other behavioral issues rolled into one. It wasn't any one thing. Also as a general rule anyone who is an Imm, or has been an Imm have additional rules that apply to us specifically, that are visible in Imm helpfiles. More is expected of staff than the general PBase.

I’m not staff, I opted out of that because it’s not good for me to be under the helm of Davairus.

Arunore, you have been yellow carded for this post. First one was already nuked for trying to out an Immortals active mortal. These situations are not the same, and there is no such rule you are talking about. Please stop it. It's OK to be mad on behalf of your friend, it's not ok to do that.

It doesn't matter if it was Thorgoth, YOU, Ozaru, or Misses Jones. It's how this was carried out when there was overwhelming evidence that the dude was innocent, and also I was part of the Discord for a long time, I saw ALL the interactions. Plus the ones you and I share. I like you, what I don't like is OOC crap poisoning this game to the point it is soulless. Which is what has happened. It's why I deleted Llhurgove, and seeing all this is why I deleted Uldhyme, and Netheusa, because it's just the same old shit with you guys.

This has nothing to do with who this happened to, but everything to do with how this was carried out.

I do not want to be an Emissary anymore. You can also delete my account.

Plus if we're talking semantics, I never called anyone out. I just said there was an Imm. That could be any of the lot of you. I know it's not Valindra though, because she reminds me of Vanisse and Vevier. They left though.

Second comment I did call you out. Difficult to sit back and watch you preach when you're knee-deep in sin.

Anyhow, no hard feelings and I'll digress now. I shall not post anymore comments here, and it has been fun gaming with you all. Perhaps we will see each other on the other side of the river. Farewell, but not goodbye as my DM's are open. I will never play Abandoned Realms again after this post. *tips hat gallantly and casts a snicker*

Unfortunately Arunore the biggest thing here is no one but Pip and the Immstaff has the complete picture. It's same old stuff here, but this was definitely not a witch hunt, or targeted, or OOC on staff part. This was enough puzzle pieces to see a picture that is not friendly to the newbies and returning players that have left for various reasons over the years (Like this). Some stuff will never be illuminated, because it just doesn't make sense to do so. Everyone who plays is always welcome to do so. It's ok to play with friends, talk to people etc. It's not ok to play in a manner that is Toxic to the player-base and drives people away.(You didn't play that way Arunore, and are always a welcome addition no matter where you are playing.)

Umm clearly I’m still pretty confused or else I wouldn’t be commenting all day. You guys made choices and decisions in isolation and you made judgement while I wasn’t around. There’s still nothing any Imm has said that justifies the outcome here.

That wasn't Thrumdor's way nor was it in line with his RP. He was a prideful dwarf who held grudges but felt safety within his sphere of Warlords and their code of honor. The Imm Warmaster broke trust and betrayed him and that was an unforgivable sin.

And "switching to this" - again, I was mass pking on Vyvax (recently killing Edaena, a Herald) before delete of Thrumdor and would have went for Korvak even before Warmaster position if I would have caught him at the same time.

Also last time I checked it’s only against the rules to out other people’s characters, not your own. If it is then you need to smack down Dogran because he sent me a DM after we fought at 50 on my Keeper talking to me about how he panicked and was shocked I didn’t kill him.

"Also last time I checked it’s only against the rules to out other people’s characters, not your own."

That's besides the point and irrelevant, pip. What matters (if I understand correctly from having watched the stream) is that YOU multi-killed Korvak as Vtyvax and took everything he had. It doesn't matter at that point whether that was in-character for Vyvax, you shouldn't have done that. And I think that is why you were denied.

I'm upset because I didn't get enough time to prepare an alt to fight you. I was coming for you, believe me.

Also, I am amused that Phostansaid I have an "NSA level of spreadsheets" - I'd say more accurately I'm a living encyclopedia.

BW - I don’t know nicer way of saying this - I really don’t care for your commentary. Not sure if you’re going for brownie points or what but it really doesn’t add any value. Plus - if I “would have known better” that my character with 129 hours and decked suit would be denied do you really think I would have done it? Come on man, get off your high horse.

So couple of things, The decision was already mostly made when I joined the conversation, but I was just number 4 in agreement with the situation. Fact is, you have been fast in loose in general for a while outting people accidentally/on purpose whatever, or deliberately saying things veiled to the same effect.

In recent history, especially before you deleted your IMM, you had a habit of posting bugs on your characters, and then agreeing with them on your imm, just like you used your imm account to agree with your position on the Necromancer thread etc. You have a history recently of stupid names (Vyvax and Thrumdor were fine namewise), and a history of comments like "I'll just abuse the hell out of this till I get what I want". Things like this all paint a picture with broad strokes. This decision resulted from a cumulation of everything that had happened recently and was just the last thing.

Finally as for me outting myself in a PM to you, it was quite obvious based on the discussion going on in IMMchat at the time (In Discord) that you were a part of, that you and most of the IMMs looking at the chat knew who both you and I were playing because of a few things being discussed, so it's not at all like I PMed you and pulled the layers back, but rather talked shit about not understanding how you didn't kill me there.

Finally it has been clear across multiple character the way you have been behaving that those characters on creation have OOC grudges against a couple of players at least by established behavior without any prior interactions between your new character and the character/player you were interacting with. That is a pretty real problem. It is important that out of character stays out of character, and in character stays in character.

Who have I outted?

Are you really bashing my character names? Isn’t one of the main points about this game that we can express creativity?

If we’re airing dirty laundry here - it wasn’t just that one time you outted your character to me. You’ve done it multiple times over the years, including OOC things like asking for who lists, stalking on your Imm to know when to log in as alts, and snooping to watch how people gameplay.

This doesn’t make sense to me “you had a habit of posting bugs on your characters then agreeing with them on your Imm”.

I can provide timestamps. FAFO

I definitely was super OOC long before I became an IMM and had a problem there. That problem was gone/resolved for years before I was Immed.

The thing about stalking on my imm is an untrue statement. I always watch people fight when I am on my Imm and I see fighting, and I even interact with the people fighting at times, haven't been concerned about when to log in or not to log in in a very very long time so that's just silliness. There is a difference between expressing creativity and names that violate the naming rules.

The last thing, you probably didn't even realize you were doing it, but you had a habit of posting a bug, then immediately commenting (Talking seconds) in bugchat, or replying to the bug with your Imm account, revealing who it is.

Any of the vets can pick out other vets by their playstyles and various things that we all do similarly across our characters. I always know when I am fighting you/Rothak/Xenyar/M1co/Kalist and a few others after a round or two.

lol, are you serious? We have Dav and Lorne openly running ooc groups and chatting about it in Imm channel. Most Imms have the ability to look at accounts to see who is who and like you said, vets know who play who. Not only that, Dav has a bad habit of outting who is playing who in the Imm channel. This is a weak argument.

And righttt, I’ll give you benefit of doubt on whether you’re abusing Imm powers but it does seem coincidental to have you show up on your alts when your friends are getting smacked or there’s an opportunity to gangbang somebody.

OOC grouping with friends is ok for PVE as long as you don't violate perma-group rules. Also Dav has done a lot of 'let's make something to go see what this content is like' to drive new change, and he gets Imm-staff to do it so that he can add stuff and make the game better with fresh info. And yes Imms talking to each-other (You were an Imm when I PMed you) when you already have the info is NOT outing your own character.

If I was abusing Imm powers I wouldn't be an Imm anylonger. Also I don't play Mort or Imm in the same timeframe. I log Imm when I don't have time to PK, or when I have Imm duties to fulfill, or both.

Also Generally if I am going to play, it's going to be the same time of day every day every time, because we all have lives and that's when mine lines up.

Oh and you never answered who I outted.

And on that one, I am not going to, as it's still in discord chat, and I am sure some people overlooked it.

Sure. FYI I didn’t know 100% you were that character but somehow you knew I was that character and maybe you were just fishing in the DM to confirm but it was still OOC.

And you say that about play times but I’ve seen otherwise , thinking of two situations specifically where you logged in mid day to try and snag an easy kill on my drow and the other was when you logged in to retrieve item when you thought no one was around.

You can’t throw out an accusation of me saying I’m putting people and then not provide proof. Also, if I’m breaching some kind of rules why are you guys not addressing them in realtime, giving me opportunity to say sorry and correct course? From my side it looks like you guys just stewed on a bunch of stuff until it boiled over and then went nuclear.

I can see how it would feel that way, and it feels terrible to log out feeling good about yourself and logging in to see your character denied or booted or whatever. I went through a lot of that in my early AR days. I have also been party to Kneejerk reactions before and I can see why you would think this was that way. Most all of the stuff that has been discussed here HAS been brought to your attention at some time or other. At this point it's super important to consider what is considered toxic and what is not. Like you, I expect to get full-looted when I get killed, and even look forward to it. (Gives me something to do). What I don't do is kill someone multiple times so I can full-loot them. I full loot under certain very specific reasons.

1. You behave trashy to me and make yourself a nuisance.
2. You are participating in a gank, and are a threat and need to be disabled from quickly rejoining the fight.
3. You make a repeated nuisance of yourself -see 1.
4. You have the flag of whatever organization I happen to be a part of at the time, for some kind of bad (For that cabals) behavior.

The names were the only thing anyone said anything about and that is because a player reported it - the IMMs let it slide until then. Even still, I deleted and I stopped that. The rest of it is news to me.

You say multiple times I killed him but it was only twice and I stopped. Plus see the help multi kill file - I didn’t break any rules. That’s your standard for how you run but that’s not defined in the help multi kill file so it’s all arbitrary.

"I'm upset because I didn't get enough time to prepare an alt to fight you. I was coming for you, believe me."

BW, why do you need an alt to fight Vyvax? Fight him on your main. And honestly, reading your comments pisses me off. Didn't you have an illusionist alt (the one which ozaru called you out) while playing your warlord leader?

Your horse aint that high bro. Get off it. Does anyone else get annoyed by BW's comments?

Trying to twist this into gender stuff.to get that fire burning??Which ties directly into politics, unfotunately.
And he's wrong about BW.

Call me crazy for deleting that post. But id rather not see that that gender topic drug into this and snowball.

I swear I clicked emissary only comment lolz.

Henrith, this is your only warning. Do not do that again. No one was hating on anyone because of gender/race. He was talking specifically about a behavior he doesn't like.

I think this thread bears a further comment for the emissary.

What Arunore is doing here is escalating. He's saying he's leaving the game after we've denied Vyvax, an event that has nothing to do with him. That's supposed to give everyone the impression our staff actions is causing some sort of mass exodus of players because it was so sinful. The fact though is that these guys are buddies IRL, or related, as has been frequently told to me, and that considerably changes that narrative. in my view this is just rushing to the defense of a buddy, and really is not even remotely close to an impartial judgment of this game's staff. Its definitely not a principled delete. Its a middle finger.

I did not know they were irl buddies but that was my immediate thought based on Arunore's extreme reaction so I completely agree. Furthermore, somewhere in this heaping pile of a gy thread it was brought up that Vyvax didn't kill Netheusa when they interacted in game despite pip's repeated claims he was a mass pker that killed indiscriminately. Seems like that friendly interaction contradicts that.

Oh I actually missed that one. Yeah cherry on top. Flying monkey comments/delete.

Not only that, but his friend/brother sought him out to give him BIS gear, No way that wasn't an OOC "hey get on and I'll give you this stuff"

Yea, right before the rust storm. How convenient is that? Anyways. Think it's time for this thread to die off.

Well yep that establishes that Arunore actually helped him pull this crap. Makes sense why they are accusing everyone else of what they are doing. I figured it was just baiting but wow the facts really came out strongly here. Good f'ing riddance then.
Wont be making this shit public but fuck thats disgusting to learn.

Did any of you guys actually observe the character Vyvax and his interaction at all before making your decision? Did you wait to see my actions against Korvak were an anomaly? Did my RP, alignment and class not allow me to PK freely? Was I doing any behavior that I wasn’t previously doing?

Multikilling. You can argue you were never given a warning, but as a former Imm, you are expected to know the rules around multikilling, and so no, you don't get the warning some people MIGHT have been given. And no, the victim being in a cabal doesn't give you a free pass on it. And no, you stepping down from having been an Imm doesn't all of a sudden give you the buffer of a warning, as mentioned above, its pretty much the exact opposite. Some people are the reason why rules need to be updated or have more detail offered, but at the end of the day, player intent accounts for a lot when it comes to how we enforce rules. Trying to rule lawyer your way through some atrocious behavior is pitiful.

Right, I forgot how the current Imm crew runes. Rules for thee and not for me.

Also, stop trying to throw the “you were a former Imm so you should know better” card, it doesn’t hold weight. I was a gimp 51 Imm with no authority and was operating off the same helpfile information the players do. Yet again you guys have no rule based grounds for the decision, just admit it was a witch hunt and that you wanted to deny the character. At least take responsibility for your decision.

You were ruining the game for someone else because they got the thing you wanted and that made you angry and bitter. I think its the lack of accountability and self-actualization from you that's sadder than the offense itself, but both are pretty bad. Pretty much everyone is in agreement you did something wrong, and a main point of contention is the degree of punishment. You still have it in your head that you did nothing wrong. That, or you do know, and you're aiming to make a spectacle of it while you gaslight everyone.

The only person I had beef with about Thrumdor was Dav, I said that in my GY post. Plus it’s rich you want to try and throw shade at me for “ruining the playing experience for someone” when you openly get off on playing halfling thieves who steal/pry people’s eq and then quit out.

so how long do I have to wait to pk someone with my alt, if I have an issue with them on my main? Just asking for a friend. Is there a current safe time allotted? Should I wait a week before I attack them? Do I never attack them again? What is the proper answer here.

Is your reasoning for attacking the player IC or OOC? Are you full-looting them despite not needing ANY of their gear? If the player doing that has no history of bad behavior, then they might be given the benefit of the doubt. Intent is near impossible to prove, but track record speaks to it quite a bit.

Well tayyah;
question 1.
Let's say your alt had zero interaction or at least, no negative interaction with them, but they either dunked your main or pissed your main off, without an Imm giving you a specific time window, what does your gut tell you would be reasonable? And how reasonable would it be to multikill them?

Question 2.
Now let's say your alt did have negative interactions with them previously after they just dunked your main, what do you think is a reasonable time frame, and would it be reasonable to multikill them?

Let's add to the questions,
What's the time frame and multikilling windows looking like if at least one of you aren't caballed?
Time frame and multikilling windows look like if you're both caballed?
Both caballed and at war with each other?

Oh, and yes Thorgoth, I definitely had to stop and consider the negative effects I was having on players with my halfling thieves towards the end of the last one I deleted, and even helped produce a lot of the changes everyone saw to make it harder to steal, as well as make it riskier to pry. You also answered my question about whether you were gaslighting to create a spectacle, or were in denial about your fault. Clearly it's the gaslighting answer, thus all the deflection.

I’m not going to apologize for holding the IMMs feet to the fire in their reasoning because it’s flawed and we all see it. You can’t point to any concrete rules that I broke, it’s all arbitrary and open for interpretation by what the Imm staff wants to conjure up and I think this experience sets a terrible precedent for the rest of the community going forward.

Tayyah, and everyone else. This situation has made it clear that while it should be obvious, we are going to have to add some stuff to the rules for further clarification. It has always been an intent vs letter of the law kind of situation.

So to answer your question Tayyah, expect to see an update in a couple of weeks (There will be an announcement) that some of the rules helpfiles have been updated/changed. Also expect the mutli-killing rule specifically to change to be completely unacceptable. It will be made clear what that looks like, and how it will be judged. Now with that said, I am done replying to this thread, it has served it's purpose.

OK. I already told you from the beginning that all the other imms agreed its wrong, but then you go defiant anyways. I figured you would still do that, but lets just look again at all the imm comments in the thread. You have Dogran, Phostan, Lumubella, all chiming in. There is not a single Imm on the staff who does not disagree that you broke the rules. We had a 1.5 hour long round table discussion before we denied Vyvax. So I don't feel we need to dogwalk you around the helpfiles or debate intent any further. The picture is clear to everybody but you, pip.

It’s not just unclear to me, the other players are asking for clarification as well because none of this adds up or has a clear reasoning why it was done. Yes im going to push back when it looks like IMMs are just building frustration over things that weren’t rule violations and then thought “well this kinda sorta almost maybe could be sibetging so let’s Ace his character”. All this situation demonstrates is that if you do stuff the Imm team doesn’t like, even if it’s not against the rules,eventually they’ll still find find a way to punish you in the most severe degree. Thats toxic AF. I think the worst thing of all is just how betrayed I feel by the entire Imm staff - it just proves that this is all transactional for you guys and people shouldn’t get too comfortable here.

Maaaate. You're a seasoned vet, elite pker and showed brilliance of rp too with multiple exalted characters.

Everyone makes mistakes, myself included. Throw back a few beers, take a break, and AR is always here to welcome you back.

PS. Axe>spear

I am pretty sure I earlier said it was multi-charactering.

To answer your question again, if you had a decked blademaster and a decked necro who you log way more hours on, another player gets promoted to warmaster, and your response is to *immediately* delete the decked blademaster and, after sulking a while, choose multikilling the player with your decked necro, you might be suspected of multi-charactering. I expect even the most sceptical readers here can at least agree with that. Even your brother will probably hesitate.

Then, if there is a paper trail of evidence left in discord that everybody can use to confirm the same guy playing both characters, and a graveyard post where everyone can see he is salty about it, that's obviously a motive. Revenge for a missed promotion being the motive.

P.S. Some of you guys asked for intent to be proven, as if the imms are just power tripping or something. Well, you already have it with the paper trail. He's pretty much already turned himself in. Plus it is not like I would ever even want to go looking for reason to deny his 160 hours necro. Its bad for the game to do that kinda stuff. Active players are preferred over an empty mud. But I didn't need to dig for this. That was all handed to me on a silver platter. Anyone with common sense would reach the same conclusion.

I don't really want to get into the same stuff i saw earlier in the thread, i.e. what about bob, or the rule doesnt say anything about OOC salt, or YouRe kIlLiNg tHe gAmE!!!11 Logs and evidence were reviewed, decision was taken. Its time to move on.

Well, this is exactly why we should just stay away from posting in the forum and discord, because you'd never know how any of these will come back to bite you in the arse, no matter how innocent it may be initially. In an alternative universe, if thrumdor had not commented in his graveyard post, or exposed his characters in discord, vyvax may not have been denied? Food for thought.

This is my last post since it’s pointless and it’s obvious there’s no place here for me anymore if this is going to be a possibility going forward. Plus the character is stained with this and my name has been ran through the mud. Ill just finally point out in final defense:

I’ve said a few times that my beef isn’t with Korvak so you guys are the one assigning that as motive even though I keep saying it’s not. Phostan wants to talk about me gaslighting people but the fact that you and crew want to keep this narrative even though it’s untrue is the true gaslighting. Yes I was grumpy that I didn’t get Warmaster, but not because I wanted Warmaster itself but of how YOU - Davairus - did the whole thing and it was a huge slap in the face. I’ve wished Korvak best of luck a few times already on GY and in game before I deleted, I liked him in game and I hope he can carry the cabal. Leader of a cabal is a heavy crown to wear but again, I didn’t want it. I always wanted Thrumdor to be #2. Plus Korvak is getting extra special treatment from the Imm staff so he’ll he just fine.

From my perspective you guys basically said: “you should know better” on a rule that wasn’t visible in helpfiles that you updated after the deny happen. Thats like me spanking my kid for eating a cookie after bed without him knowing it was ok and then saying “well you shoulda known!” It’s dysfunctional.

I’ve already broken down this “paper trail” of yours and it doesn’t hold any weight nor did I break any rules except for maybe the naming standards which I rectified by deleting the char and not doing it anymore. You guys pooled up your grievances instead of addressing them in realtime and giving me opportunity to correct course - instead you let me go on thinking everything was good.

Lastly - the multi charactering rule break is so ambiguous and still doesn't justify grounds for deny based on the history of the character itself. You guys are telling me that I should have:

1. Known that pking Warmaster with Vyvax was against the rules even though this was the status quo of the character
2. Given some arbitrary time frame (that has still yet to be defined) between Thrumdor and pking Korvak on Vyvax. See Xenyar comment above, he was right - I was going to do the same even with Thrumdor around.
3. Left Korvak alone until said arbitrary and elusive time frame had passed on Vyvax even though that was absolutely against RP and who the character historically was.
4. And let’s not be naive, even without me outing myself in Discord, if this would have happened you would have checked my account on the characters and the same thing would have happened.

I would understand if I pulled a character from inactive and went after him, or the character didn’t have RP reasons aka a neutral (Tinklington) or something and did this but everything lines up on the character for it to be justified, however you guys wants to assign personal motive to it and that’s where this whole situation got corrupted and escalated.

I never wanted to add fuel to the fire. But here goes -

Pip it's the silent pking multi-killing. If you went and killed him once - part of your silent evil necro RP, ok sure, we can believe that. You go around killing everyone - amassing your large sack of souls. Cool. Interestingly, never wanted Netheusa's soul eh? Pretty chum with him IC without a background, so I guess you don't mass kill everyone.

But the second kill and full-loot/sacrifice, right after he unghosts, without any provocation or rping? I wonder, who else did you do that too on Vyvax? - do you have two souls of anyone else in your sack?

You keep saying you were on being #2 on Thrumdor, I never wanted it - except you say the exact opposite on your GY post.

Anyways, like most other vets and seasoned players here - you bring alot to the table. I always love seeing you around and pking at the top level with sometimes non-traditional race/class combos. I hope you see it's just a game to enjoy for everyone, and think of your fellow player on the other side.

Well i said I wasn’t going to respond but when i see untruth are being spread im going to call it out.

1. “You said the exact opposite in your GY” : untrue, exact quote: “ I got no beef with you and think you’ll be a good Warmaster. It’s the way in which it all went down that rubbed me the wrong way. Honestly I was more than happy to be #2 cuz I’d rather be kicking ass and taking names but like I said, it was a shady slide of hands by Dav with no communication about any of it in note or game. Either way, I do hope you succeed and enjoy the limelight”.

2. If you’re talking about the one time I saw Netheusa, I was looking for her to attack until I got a tell saying “I’ve got some things for you”. I knew she had Black Mirror which was a set I was going for but when I went to her she didn’t have it. What she did have was a Tome of Arcanus, Nimbus of Power and polished marble ring, all items I wanted. Since you were obviously snooping us, you’ll see at the end there was some unfinished animosity where we basically said “next time might be a fight.” Just as much as I reserve right to not kill Brandolin, I have even more reason and right to not kill a quasit Ill giving me sought after gearing that was pleasing to Vyvax and Zylenier. You guys are so blinded by whatever your judgement that you failed to look at the character and RP arc as a whole. Oh and no one has mentioned yet that I was an Assassin so don’t tell me my actions weren’t justified.

And yes I believe there was someone else who I had 2 souls of but I can’t remember off the top of my head.

We can point at multiple references to the forum and logboards over the years where the Imm staff and Davairus himself has said that it’s ok for evils to silent PK and multi kill within reason. You guys are acting like I stuck around and killed this guy for hours on end but it went after him when he was naked, but he wasn’t. The first death wasn’t a full loot and he had more than enough gear to get back on the wagon. He’s the one who made the assumption that “we’re cool now” and went bebopping around. You know just as well as I did that in past times you either quit out or you knew that you had to duck and dodge people to get gear in time before they found you and attacked. Why are you guys acting so obtuse? This is how the game has been and always has been and you’re just unwilling to accept that you made a bad call.

Oh, I was just going off what you mentioned your rp was from above - a mass pker, no discrimination, kill all, collect 100 souls, rakh king, usurper etc etc.

Well, you keep trying to justify you didn't delete out of spite, but you deleted how long after Korvak got promoted? I don't know exactly, but it's within a day right? Not exactly sure what you were expecting in terms of a note or RP from anyone if you never even gave it a chance.

But anyways, if you don't feel like its not fun anymore to play, than maybe a good time for a break. Come back and kick all our asses with a half-elf shadow.

I checked notes when I logged in to see if Dav had written something to Warlord or me personally and he didn’t. That was enough.

I think I’m good. The last times I took a break it was because I needed to step away and recalibrate but I always felt I was coming back to a community. I even apologized to Dav privately on the last time around because it felt weird playing a game that he’s worked hard on knowing there was bad blood. This situation has made it evident to me and sent the message that this is not a place you guys want me to be apart of. It hurts, it sucks but it is what it is.

Even if I had written a note, you would've just said something like "I haven't had time to read it, and even if i did, why should i care".

Not once in this entire 101 post dumpster fire have you expressed any regret for ruining Korvak's experience. All you have done is call him a whiner. You even told him its own fault for not logging off. This is the sure tell that you were trying to force a player off the game, after being frustrated for OOC reasons.

After about 100+ posts of self -defense and zero accountability, what's next? Another twenty or so posts of calling everybody snowflakes and staff-worshippers while pronouncing they don't want you around? You think everyone just hates you? Not a single person ever actually said that. Nobody needed to say that because the logs and timestamps speak for themselves.

Your assumption is incorrect. Why would I not take the time when I already stated to Lorne that I logged in and checked notes right when I logged on - clearly I was looking for communication on the matter.

As far as remorse or regret to “ruining Korvak’s experience” - no it didn’t dawn on me to apologize for how gameplay has been for 25+ years, nor has anyone who has full looted or multi killed me ever apologized. But sure, I’m sorry if I ruined your gameplay Korvak. Hopefully Dav will change full loots and multi kills instead of shirking responsibility on the players.

It says in help cabal conduct , "Do not drop your roleplaying standards at any time. This will result in your immediate termination. This includes exposing your player identity via "breaking the fourth wall" in any external mediums of communication." That means it shouldn't have even been in the cabal anymore, let alone leading it. So this entire BS line "I didnt get a note" is completely moot. Its already clear you don't read anything.

Please provide proof of where I said I was Thrumdor. I never did such a thing that I recall.

That's okay Dav, glaze right over the blatant Imm cheating. Nothing to see here. The picture is bigger folks. Not many of you realize that. That is why there is so much passion dying in this thread.

Ok I'll give you one. I spoke to one player specifically about how they figured it out, they gave me this: ". We were in Citadel together and he was asking discord for info on the masters mystery." That's how careless you were being.

No

He says that but you never know what’s gonna happen based on the mood of the Imm staff. That’s the Jedi mind trick.

Gilded Forged gear is arguably BiS in terms of AC and affects, can be engraved so the time sink makes sense. To me it’s the same as saccing demo skin armor from Underworld, overlapping black plates, etc. I loot and sac forged armor because of this reason.

As far as taking me down - see all Imm comments in Discord and website for their solution: HGOD

Separately - Korvak was decked and could actually have killed me the first time around because he dealt so much damage, forms dirted and if would have pursued and his me with two-three more rounds I would have died. Instead he panicked and ran away which got him killed.

Im going to entertain this stupidity with 1 response, if you think saccing overlapping plates is the same thing as saccing forged armor you are just deluding yourself.

I never agree with HGOD because thats the biggest OOC bullshit in the game Davairus did that against me with Gulgru and I am pretty sure one of the immortals was dogran who had a justice and just fucking sat that on his imm while it happened.

The fuck you think im talking about when I say skill, 99% of this game is about chasing, you think Korvak can run you down, do you think any of us can. Im fucking amazed when I fight you or xenyar its like you guys have a fucking automap chasing people. For the lesser skilled people the reaction is to heal up and hope for some lucky rounds and you roll the dice in a pretty hurt/awful fight to where we get lucky and win.

Have some self awareness ffs. Yeah the time sink makes sense for best in slot armor, but it doesn't mean you have to sacrifice it when you kill someone. How the hell are you going to collect a 100 souls if you keep full looting people to where they don't want to play the game. Seems like we have a few new players, do you think they will stay long if they keep getting murdered and full looted, fuck no. The time we spend here means we aren't spending with wives, kids, gf, gym, whatever your other hobbies are. When you get killed you accept it, when you come back to your corpse and see all your good shit is taken, you're thinking the fk am I wasting my time here. Clearly this player doesn't value it, why should I keep playing.

Hey Oz,

Just thought I'd make a positive comment with all the negativity flowing here. I may recognize your characters when we fight, but i respect the fact that you're better than me even when you're not using bugs like the mushroom pill bug you utilized on fight night.

One of our best interactions between characters was when I was playing Cothagh and you were playing Sariana. I don't expect you to remember that, but your character was a weretiger in the Warlords and she beat my human ranger several times. I genuinely treasured our interactions and I found myself at a loss when you deleted.

I think you have the potential to make it into the Hall of Exalted if you stick with a character for a year rather than deleting after 4-6 months. You just have to keep at it. Give yourself long-term goals and don't get discouraged by losing and you've got it.

This one deserves a reply. When you had Gulgru, I had two characters, I deleted my knight because you killed and looted him, and was playing a Legion during that conflict. My Legion did battle with both sides, and would not have helped either side.

Doran yes my bad my memory is fuzzy it was your storm knight you caught a stray meant for another immortal that just sat on the sideline

Can we lock this GY now before it continues to derail and stir up more unnecessary crap? I think everybody has said what they are gonna say at this point.

Up to Dogran of course. But i will just say that if you participated in lengthening the thread by supporting this guy that would have been..unhelpful.. to ending this crap.

Tinklington was posting from a denied character baiting and that was supposed to be already not allowed. I fixed the bug and wiped it up.

Probably a good idea to add at this point.

I see it differently. I use the "lull" time when I'm not battling to farm resources. I farm medals, relics, gold etc etc. In the event i get looted, i have the resources to immediately re-equip. An example is golden ore. You can buy it off the juggernaut. It gives me something to do when nobody's around.

I think the problem is looting vs player skill level. Ozaru gets dunk by pip. So Pip gets to loot ozaru easily while ozaru never gets to loot pip. If Xenyar fights Pip, the skill level is about even, so deaths are fewer and getting looted is okay. But there's no real way to "bracket" similar skill players as a game system. As for me, if there's an extremely slippery guy that is hard to kill, I'll be heavier in my looting.

Even if you lose your gilded silver, an overlapping black armor has 1 damroll less and minor AC less. You're still competitive. I see gilded armors as BiS eq as an optional min maxing that you do if you have the time. If you dont, go slap on some rares and you're still competitive.