Formations, a change to Group PvP and Leveling.

Okay in theory when you join a group everyone in the group is in the front of the formation. F1-F2-F3, Pets to the side of there owners or something like that. My idea is a Formation layout such as this. (Just a rough draft)

(F1) [---------------] (F2) [-----Test-----] (F3) [---------------]
(M1) [---------------] (M2) [-------------] (M3) [---------------]
(B1) [---------------] (B2) [--------------] (B3) [---------------]
Characters---Level----Position----Here----Follow----HP----ME----PE
Test------------50--------F2-------Yes----No--------100%----100%----100%

It would allow for groups to position mages, healers, necromancers ect second row, or third row behind a pet. It would also make for soloing as lower level mage or cleric easier with a pet and mercenary. Some pets such as Dragons and Griffons would have reach. There would be a lot to take into consideration, such as reaching weapons, Spears, Polearms, Bows, Whips, some exotics, so that they can reach the second row kill the pet quick and then the caster in the third row. Also backstab, you could only backstab someone if they did not have a pet behind them or they were in the back row. While a Warrior can sit second row with a reaching weapon or a ranger can sit in the back row behind his pets and use a bow. There are so many different pros and cons and I am sure I missed some and some of you can help me out. I believe with the right code it would be a game changer for the better for everyone!

Actually I really like this idea. The formation stuff reminds me of the aim command, never implemented, that would've been used to make it possible to aim at weak points in a person's armor. It makes sense to join a group, then fight at long range with polearms and bows to do that properly.


I will work on something, maybe not quite like that, but you definitely got something rolling.

Thanks Beia.

This could really benefit against those mobs that swing, but you'd also have to work on the "range" of spells and the amount of damage that is increased/decreased from being in the front or back of the row. The idea itself reminds me of Final Fantasy, but I haven't seen a MUD implement something like this. Although, I haven't really beat my wings from this tree..

Maybe throw in Ambush encounters too to target the back row first instead of the front row to make things interesting.

I've done a bit more reading on this and a found a (sadly empty) MUD that already had implemented it to try to review it. I guess that might mean its not that desirable a feature..? It seems its from final fantasy.

Front = able to get lots of melee hits in, but get hit a lot
Mid = not hit so much, but missing much more often
Rear = rarely ever hit (except by AOE), melee miss, casting spells works fine

Example execution:

thief backstabs (in the front), warrior rescues, thief retreats to mid. If you are in the front you are tanking period.

Does that sound right?

If you guys find it fun and it isn't imbalanced, that's all that matters to me. What I read indicates levelling would get more difficult for a group overall but stays easier than soloing.

The idea I had came from a mud I spent a little bit of time in, there combat system is not even half as good as ours, but the formation system they have makes more logical sense, if you are making the game more realistic in the sense of combat.

[quote="Davairus"]I've done a bit more reading on this and a found a (sadly empty) MUD that already had implemented it to try to review it. I guess that might mean its not that desirable a feature..? It seems its from final fantasy.

Front = able to get lots of melee hits in, but get hit a lot
Mid = not hit so much, but missing much more often
Rear = rarely ever hit (except by AOE), melee miss, casting spells works fine

Example execution:

thief backstabs (in the front), warrior rescues, thief retreats to mid. If you are in the front you are tanking period.

Does that sound right?

If you guys find it fun and it isn't imbalanced, that's all that matters to me. What I read indicates levelling would get more difficult for a group overall but stays easier than soloing.[/quote]

We're really looking to sodomize mage training rates for weapons.

I don't think missing with your weapon stops you from training it, but I could be wrong. Any way, just doing less damage instead of missing is same difference.

afaik, defenses work in such a way that if you are missed by AC, your defenses dont get checked at all, so you cant spam train them on 20 hobgoblins easy as pie.

checking weapon skill when attacking might still go through when you miss, but if it follows the same logic as the defense check, then it wouldn't get checked and have the chance to increase.

I've moved defences back in front of AC.

So dav does this mean you will be able to gimp yourself hardcore and train on hobgoblin soldiers again in the hobgoblin village?

Yup if the eq was there for it, I guess so.

Lowbie defense training is going to come back....also you can master unholy/holy armor by lvl 15, maybe less on hobgoblins soldiers, bodyguards and the king. Only took about 4-6 hours give or take about 5 months ago lol

Invokers:
We could beef up pet hp and give mages some sort of reaching weapon like a reaching pole-mace.
Or
Give Invokers Elementals (Air - Resist some magical attacks, Fire - Resist Fire based attacks, Earth - Resist Physical Damage, Water - Resist water based attacks, 72 hour cool-down, and if it dies before that the cool-down resets.

Healers:
We could add something like a Holy Wisp, that grows with you as you level, kinda like the Birth of the Phoenix, when you are about to die it sacrifices itself and gives you a % of your HP. Long Cool-down.

Illusionists:
Illithids have long arms, so they can reach. Obviously spell heavy, so spells will reach.

Rogues:
Circle stab, Hamstring, Hemorrhage, All from second row with a dagger or some specific swords. Bows, Reaching Spears.

Just throwing it out there.

I haven't forgotten about this, I still felt it was a really cool idea, but it wasn't very unique.


Other than the obvious case of having your tank in front when you walk into rooms with aggresives in them (which is actually very desirable), I'm not sure what would really be the point. For that you could just set a group tank and let thief or mages start combat with backstabs, the mobs would then go for the tanks who can dirt better because they've been attacked instead of trying to start with it. We wouldn't really need full formations. For classes like rogues, who would want to be in close quarters to use their ravage or whatever they do, they are going to be taking stray hits from a proximity penalty. So not that fun after all.

It would change the battlefield drastically.

[quote="beia"]It would change the battlefield drastically.[/quote]

More effective ganking? Like we need that.

More effective group combat.... We need more of that...

D can you take another look at my original suggestion and let me know what you think..


Incorporate pets into the formation, ranger pets would be front row ranger in the back with a bow. Add some range to our PvP, shooting from a room away, Skirmish <target> Mages could get an elemental that matches there affinity. Group PvP with a healer in the back row..

Revive!

I don't think this is necessary for the game. I just want to group up and go out. This also conflicts with code changes that were implemented to stop pets from tanking, such as mob redirect and pets not even assisting in PvP.

Maybe we can take another look at group formations!

Not to poo poo a popular idea and it's probably time for me to get aged out of the game but my gut reaction says this is too complicated.